Deborah Conrad VAERS interview

Published on 18 July 2025

Click on thumbnail to watch the interview on Rumble

Update: After posting this OutScript I noticed that there are some syncing issues between the transcript and the video, probably because it was a live Rumble show and the video which gets posted to the channel might have some edits. 

I have not made any change to the OutScript, but please watch the video in full to verify everything in this OutScript before citing it (you probably should be doing it anyway whenever you cite a video).

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[Deborah Conrad]

[0:00:21]
At the time, and I actually also did a lot of teaching.

Deborah's Role and Patient Advocacy

I had some teaching appointments and helped to teach our physician assistant students as well.
[Interviewer]
This events.

Fear of Retaliation for VAERS Reporting

[Deborah Conrad]
Correct. But it was either they didn't want to file them themselves because, you know, they didn't have the time, especially our emergency room and urgent care providers. They're swamped down there. And the other issue was they were seeing what was happening with me, the gas lighting, the constant being brought in for interrogation. And they didn't want that to happen to them. Right. I mean, I was very vocal in the hospital.

[0:01:00]
People were very aware of what was going on and they knew of the retaliation that I was getting. So many of them would come in secret to me. They would slip these patients in my desk, little notes, you know, or they open my drawer next to where I would sit and stuff patients in there because it was a very kind of secretive thing. They were afraid of anybody knowing that they were thinking or seeing the same thing that I was.
[Interviewer]
So let's talk about some of the retaliation you got.

Hospital Retaliation Against Deborah

I mean, apart from being told you can't raise those VAERS reports for the 170. What actually did the hospital do to you leading up to because you did get fired October 2021. What did they do to you?
[Deborah Conrad]
So, you know, it was it was a lot of back and forth emailing initially about basically the arguments about why I felt that this was so needed and so necessary to do. And it was just, again, a lot of that gaslighting back and forth that basically no one else is seeing what I'm seeing.

[0:02:06]
You know, there's something must be something wrong with you that that you're seeing, you know, that kind of thing back and forth. And your second question, you asked, why did I start to report these cases to VAERS? And it's interesting because prior to the fourth and then it because I wouldn't I wouldn't shut up about it. Then it started being meetings where I would get called in on my you know, I had one particular meeting that we had when I had a day off and they called me to basically talk to me about, again, what was I doing? Why? Why am I still pressing this issue? And then when I was in the hospital working, there was often times when I would be called down to, you know, the president of the hospital's office or the chief medical officer's office to basically be reprimanded about what I was doing. And it was just and then one of the meetings I was they threatened to report me to the state for basically spreading misinformation.

Threats to Report Deborah to State Licensing Board

[0:03:11]
So in New York, well, and pretty much in any state in the United States, physician assistants and physicians have licensing boards that are basically responsible for assuring that you're you're a good provider and kind of they watch over you in that. And so they threatened to report me to my New York state licensing board, basically to tell them that I'm spreading misinformation about these covid vaccines. So it was that kind of stuff. And then there was another meeting where they were telling me that there were patient complaints, which, again, in all the years that I have been at that hospital, I didn't have patient complaints.

Fabricated Patient Complaints

I had cards and letters and all sorts of things from patients thanking me for my care, because, again, this the covid pandemic, I had not done a VAERS report prior because working in the hospital, we my my personality didn't change during covid and how it was my entire career.

[0:04:10]
I've always been an advocate for my patients and and that's nothing changed about who I was. But yet now they're saying I've got all these patient complaints, you know, that kind of stuff was going on. And then an example of a patient complaint, what would a patient complain about? So there was a particular situation where there was there was a patient that was admitted to the hospital with an arrhythmia of the heart after she received one of her covid vaccines.

Example of a Patient Complaint and Daughter's Reaction

And the patient herself asked me to basically file a report for her because she said, this is what's been happening to me since I had this vaccine. I believe this is from the vaccine. And I said, I can file a report that I could document it in your medical record. That's what I can do for you. Well, she was so grateful that somebody acknowledged that this was going on because she said, you know, my family doesn't believe me.

[0:05:07]
They think it's just some random event. But she says, I know this is from the vaccine. I knew when I when I felt what I feel. Well, after I told her I would file the report, the daughter, her daughter came in the room and basically asked, what are you guys talking about? And she's like, well, she's going to file this report for me so that it's documented what happened to me. And the daughter blew up and was like, now you're not now you're not going to get another covid vaccine because of this doctor. You know, and she's just like, you need to get another covid vaccine. Don't listen. And so then she apparently went to administration and told them that I was spreading misinformation. That's because, again, it was a very volatile time.

Volatile Environment and Vaccine Mandates

This was the time where the news was, you know, this vaccine as a general rule, you know, we might write an order for, say, a flu vaccine or a pneumonia vaccine.

[0:06:02]
But we but that's really about it. The thing was the was getting us out of this pandemic and any dissenters were going to we're going to be the reason we're not going to get through this. So I again, we had a very volatile it was very it was very volatile time. And then the mandates when they were coming down, remember, you know, patients and families were very angry at the health care workers who were not getting vaccinated. And most of the health systems made you wear a badge if you were vaccinated. So the families and the patients knew the providers that weren't vaccinated because we weren't wearing the badge.
[Interviewer]
You weren't wearing a badge.
[Deborah Conrad]
Yeah. So I mean, you know, so so it was, you know, you stuck out like a sore thumb if you didn't you didn't have your I'm a covid vaccine. I forgot what it was. It was something like, you know, I took the covid vaccine. It was like a button you had to wear on your person.
[Interviewer]
It's like the Jewish yellow star.
[Deborah Conrad]
Oh, this is one of those dissenter people.

[0:07:01]
So you get targeted.
[Interviewer]
Yeah. Yeah. The family story, I really resonate with that story. I've seen that so often so that that family member is gaslighting their own family member and then coming after you. We've seen that here also with treatment. Yeah. With people who chose to use ivermectin, you know, any doctor that suggested it or, you know, the family would come after the doctor and report that doctor to the authorities and get that doctor suspended. The family is always the problem. OK, so that OK, I've got the idea about the complaint now. So what that so that's escalating now, you're getting all these warnings. How did it lead to the point where you were fired?
[Deborah Conrad]
The patient gets discharged.

Escalation to Firing and Public Disclosure

Those usually get get given to the patients on discharge. So unless the patient got readmitted, any side effects that might have happened. So, you know, as time went on, I then had to seek legal counsel.

[0:08:00]
So I had to I had to get some legal counsel to help me because I knew I was in trouble. Obviously, you know, there's patient complaints now and there's they're threatening to report me to the state. And I said I need to get some counsel to help keep me. As a result of that, some legal letter letters were written to the the hospital and the CDC and the New York State Department of Health and things like that, basically, you know, letting everybody being putting putting everyone basically on notice that, you know, we're aware of what's going on and, you know, there's some shenanigans and legal issues going on. So that started on my end. And then I also went public. So, again, the mandates were, you know, there was a sports vaccination or you would lose your job. And so the New York Times asked me to interview with them, particularly about the mandates and about how why I wasn't getting vaccinated as a health care worker.

[0:09:06]
And in this piece that I did with them, I said the reason I'm not getting vaccinated is because I'm afraid because of all the issues I'm seeing in the patients that I'm taking care of. And again, all the issues going on with the VAERS reporting. So that was a was public. And then I also went on and with those types of vaccines would have gone to their primary. So prior to this, I had never done a VAERS report, nor did I know about the system itself. A show called The High Wire with Del Bigtree, who has a very large audience. And I disclosed to the public kind of what was going on with me and that I'm seeing vaccine side effects. These are real. And the hospitals are blocking us for doing our due diligence in reporting the safety issues we're seeing. And so that's kind of what led up to the ultimate interrogation on October 6th of 2021, where I was grounded in the middle of my work shift.

The Firing Incident

[0:10:12]
So I worked 12 hour shifts. And right after when I came back from lunch around one o'clock in the afternoon, I sat down to start my discharges for the day. And I was surrounded by three human resources leadership people who then asked me to grab my things and basically to come with them. And they did it again. This was very calculated, in my opinion, because it was on the busiest floor of the hospital during the busiest time of day. So everybody could see what they were doing to Doug Conrad, who was a dissenter, you know, conspiracy person, whatever. So they then brought me into a room and basically asked me all about the New York Times article and the high wire and why did I do these types of things.

[0:11:02]
And then they said, well, are you going to let us walk you out? Are you going to walk out quietly? Or, you know, what do you want to what do you want to do here? And I'm just looking at him like, are you people crazy? Like, you know me, I'm not I'm a good person. Well, how could you do this, you know, and and ultimately, but having worked in this hospital system for as long as I did, you know, close to 15 years, I knew on a day to day basis, I was was escorted out of the hospital.

Hospital's Stated Reason for Firing

[Interviewer]
So did they verbalize the sentence? And basically. Sorry, I didn't mean to. I'm sorry. I just wanted to ask you, did they actually verbalize the sentence and say you're fired because you went on Dell Big Tree, because you went to the New York Times and because you're raising bears reports like did they say the why you're fired?
[Deborah Conrad]
Well, I mean, in the in the actual meeting when we when I was being interrogated, you know, I just basically it was sorry, people are breaking the law, you know, you're, you're the ones in the wrong here.

[0:12:05]
I'm just doing what we're required to be doing. You know, what are you doing? Don't do this kind of thing. And there was and then, you know, I just kept arguing back and forth. And then they finally just said, Are you going to walk out quietly? Are we going to walk you out? And it was it was just like that. And then the next day, I received a letter in the mail, basically saying that my employment was has ended as of that day, October 6. And that day, my health insurance was canceled. And I was like, I never existed. And to be clear, at no point did they say even my patients, my poor patients that day, never. They walked me out. And all those patients that I had to discharge that I saw in the morning. I don't know what happened to them. I never came back. Because they must have given them to some other provider to take care of.
[Interviewer]
But yeah, very abrupt. So at no point were the words used you're fired because you're not vaccinated?
[Deborah Conrad]

[0:13:04]
Well, I mean, no, no, no. I mean, they asked me if I was going to get the COVID vaccine. And I said, Well, of course not. I'd be crazy to, you know, I'm what types of patients and conditions and things that we would get as a general rule. I mean, every once in a while, you'd have something odd. But generally seeing all of these side effects. I mean, this is terrifying, right? But you know, there was nothing like you're not, you know, you're fired because you're not getting vaccinated. It's kind of stuff. No. Okay, so I cared more about the New York Times article and everything else. And that's right.
[Interviewer]
So that obviously wasn't the rule at your hospital, because at some other hospitals later in the year, I think they did mandate it.

Mandates and Religious Exemptions

[Deborah Conrad]
Oh, yes. Yeah. I mean, the mandates didn't come down to the following the end of the next month. So I can't remember off the top. I think it was November 21st or 25th was the New York State mandate for the other employees that were still there that were holding religious exemptions like myself because I had a valid approved religious exemption at the time of my firing.

[0:14:07]
So yeah, they didn't terminate those with approved religious exemptions till almost a month and a half later. And those individuals got to work to the basically the strike of midnight that night. So they didn't get walked out in the middle of their shift, they were allowed to work to the end of their shift or till midnight for those that worked the overnights.

Deborah's Prior Recognition and Nominations

[Interviewer]
So that clarifies that this is completely different. So I just want to also point out that you were nominated. I read a report that said you were nominated for a seat on the New York State Board for Professional Medical Conduct. I'm not sure what that is. But in April 2021, you were also nominated by RIH for Physician Excellence Award.
[Deborah Conrad]
Correct. Yeah, the first one is that's the New York State Physician Assistant Society, which is our New York State again, board for people, it's the same type of admissions that come in.

[0:15:03]
But after the COVID vaccines came out, everything seemed to be very strange as far as the way that PCAs and their organization nominated me, there was an open seat for the New York State Board for Professional Misconduct, which is basically a board in Albany, that helps to decide whether medical providers, you know, are engaging in professional misconduct, which then sometimes leads to suspension of their license. So I was nominated for that seat, that open seat to sit on the board. It's so ironic, right? Because then they're threatening to report me to the board, but yet I'm being nominated to sit on the board. It's insane. So yeah, I had that happen. And obviously, I never got to that point, because I ended up, you know, getting fired and walked out. So I wasn't able to ultimately take that seat. But, and then yes, I also received, I was the first PA ever to receive a nomination for Physician Excellence of the Year award by my organization.

Summary of Hospital's Shift in Stance

[Interviewer]

[0:16:13]
So basically, they loved you until you started raising VAERS reports, and then suddenly not anymore. That's the bottom line. Correct. Okay.

Rochester Regional Health System Overview

So this hospital, this health system, Rochester, just to give everyone an idea, you know, because there'll be a lot of people watching, perhaps who aren't from New York, and certainly not from America. Rochester Regional Health is a big system.
[Deborah Conrad]
It's not, I looked it up, it's nine hospitals, 20, nearly 20,000 employees, about 4,000 nurses, about 2,000 medical providers, five ambulances were presenting, and the types of things that they were presenting with as far as medical conditions, many times things I have never seen before in my career.
[Interviewer]
So it...

[0:17:00]
Ambulance facilities. So we're talking a big system, right? Correct. The whole hospital itself was only about 100 bed, 131 bed hospital?
[Deborah Conrad]
Yes.
[Interviewer]
Yeah.

Explanation of Qui Tam Cases and False Claims Act

So I might switch, if you don't mind, I might switch to Warner to get, to talk about the case, because you filed a case in 2023, I think, from what I can tell. Right. So it's a Key Tam case, similar to the Brooke Jackson case, which Warner did. Do you wanna, I know we've been through this ground before Warner, but do you wanna just explain to people who perhaps didn't watch it in the Brooke Jackson videos, what a Key Tam is, a Key Tam case and what the False Claims Act is?
[Warner Mendenhall]
All of this is actually very simple. So anyone who knows that federal money is being misspent, misused, or stolen, and they have that information, can bring that information forward through one of these Federal False Claims Act cases.

[0:18:02]
Every single citizen has standing, if they have the information, to bring these types of cases.

Mandatory VAERS Reporting Requirements

And people may be thinking, well, what are you talking about with VAERS in particular? And the issue with VAERS is, they're not allowed to be paid for the shots, or the administration of the shots, or any of the costs involved, if they're not reporting events that are mandatory reporting events. And let's make a little bit of a difference here. There's a whole universe of events that probably should be reported, but there is a set, a subset of events that...
[Interviewer]
Welcome to our channel, Refugee Sinners. Today, we have Deborah Conrad and Warner Mendenhall. Deborah was a physician assistant working in the Rochester, New York...
[Deborah Conrad]
Immediately seemed very strange and odd to me and intrigued me as to what was going on. And it was interesting because it was the patients themselves who often...
[Warner Mendenhall]
Must be reported.

[0:19:01]
And the simplest of those for people to grasp, if you've had the shot and you have COVID, that's a mandatory reporting event. And if you've got myocarditis, mandatory reporting event. And we are looking for hospitalizations. So, we want to see that somebody has had a shot, in this case, from Rochester Regional System, and then they came back to the hospital and were hospitalized for one of these mandatory events. So, that's what we're keying off of. And we know that the hospital system gave tens of thousands of these shots. And we also know that somewhere over 10,000 people returned to the system for services. So, and then I don't want to get more detailed than that, but they came back for services. And as Deb said, she's really the only one who is making the VAERS report. So, only a couple of hundred of those are reported. The rest of those are in violation of federal law.

[0:20:01]
And it's not only civil law under the False Claims Act, it's also criminal law under 18 U.S.C. 1001. It's simply a lie by omission to the federal government. Because ostensibly, our vaccine policy, as established by Congress in the 80s, is that when adverse events occur, we want to know about it to keep the population safe. And I know people will say, well, this was designed to hurt the population, whatever. But the system is set up. It's a safety mechanism for the system. That's how it should work. And we have the tools to make it work that way.
[Deborah Conrad]
And really, what I would say, would tell me what was wrong with them. And they would say, hey, I just got my COVID vaccine. And almost right after I got this, I started feeling ill.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Say the beauty of this case, first of all, is that there's never been a prior case holding anybody responsible for VAERS reporting.

Significance of the Case and Judge's Ruling

[0:21:01]
The second thing is, yeah, so we were concerned, you know, I mean, it's a new type of theory, new case under an old law. The False Claims Act was passed in 1863. But it's a new way of using the law. So we were a little bit concerned about that. And the judge said, no, this is how you sue over this. This is the way to go. And additionally, when they passed the Emergency Use Authorization and created what's called a Program Provider Agreement, that provider agreement in the agreement says that they are liable under the False Claims Act and criminal law if they fail to make these reports. I analogize it to, you know, domestic abuse or, you know, sexual abuse of children. You know, this is medical abuse, basically, to fail to make the report. So you need to have these feedback loops. You can't have a child come into your hospital who's been sexually abused and say, oh, no, we're not going to report to sexual abuse. They're mandatory reporters.

[0:22:00]
It's the same way here. People have been abused by a vaccine that really isn't a vaccine, doesn't work, and is very harmful. And that abuse needs to be reported to our government. Now, whether the government is responsive to it or not, you know, that's a whole other argument and story. But we have a way through this mechanism to hold at least Rochester Regional responsible for its bad behavior.
[Deborah Conrad]
I immediately had these symptoms. So the patients themselves were the ones who were telling me about the side effects they were experiencing.
[Interviewer]
How, just to be clear, how does Rochester Regional Health get paid for this COVID vaccination program?

How Hospitals Get Paid for Vaccinations and Penalties for Non-Reporting

Is it like 40 bucks per shot that they give? Like, how are they getting paid?
[Warner Mendenhall]
I mean, that's a good number to have in mind. The number has actually changed over time a little bit, but they get an administrative fee for every shot that they give. And then if they fail to make this VAERS report, technically there is a penalty, or some people could think, you could think of it maybe as a fine, but it's technically under the law called a penalty.

[0:23:12]
And the penalty is 13,000to27,000 for each failure to report these injuries to the federal government.
[Interviewer]
All right, for each failure. Okay.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yep.
[Interviewer]
So this Ketam case, Debra's called the relator, but she's actually filing on behalf of the American people.

Government's Decision Not to Join the Case

And the government has the option to join the case, just like they did with Book Jackson case. Now, the interesting thing is the government has decided not to join this case.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah, that's right. I mean, this was initially filed under the Biden administration. So I guess in some ways there's no surprise there, but what is a bit surprising is that when the administration changed and Bobby Kennedy came in as head of HHS, he has talked about VAERS and accountability.

[0:24:06]
Well, this is the way to get that accountability. And I saw a program that he was on the other day with Tucker, where he said, there's no way to hold them accountable. That's just not true. For any EUA product, you can hold them accountable. So I want to make sure.
[Deborah Conrad]
And I didn't know what to, when they were telling me this initially, I didn't know what to do. So I ended up just going to the internet and trying to figure out if anybody else was seeing this.
[Warner Mendenhall]
And I discovered that the message is sent to the secretary of health and human services, that we are trying to hold them accountable. And we would welcome his assistance in holding this hospital system, as well as about 2,800 other hospital systems accountable for failing to report the literally hundreds of thousands of very severe injuries that people have experienced, maybe millions, maybe millions.
[Interviewer]
So the government, okay.

[0:25:00]
Two points that you just raised in. The government declined to be involved February, 2024.
[(Unidentified)]
Mm-hmm.
[Interviewer]
Okay. So that's before the election. Now it's not too late then for that decision to be reversed.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Right. They could come in at any time. And we would, like I said, we would welcome their involvement in the case.
[Interviewer]
Have you guys written to Bobby Kennedy or to anyone that works beneath him? Yes.
[Warner Mendenhall]
I have reached out through channels to alert him to the case and ask for his assistance. Yes.
[Interviewer]
Okay. Well, that definitely needs to be highlighted.

Widespread Non-Reporting in Hospital Systems

All right. And then the second thing you said, yes, this is one system, this is Rochester. But if this is happening in this system, there's no doubt in my mind that it's happening in many others. Have physician assistants or doctors or anyone approached you because of this case and said, hi, it's happening in our system as well?
[Warner Mendenhall]

[0:26:02]
Well, I have a couple of responses to that. The first answer is yes, we have been approached. It is happening. In fact, I don't know of a system.
[Deborah Conrad]
I covered the vaccine adverse event reporting system. I taught myself how to file a report through a lot of trial and error.
[Warner Mendenhall]
And then I became- Like I said, we have roughly 2,800 hospital systems in the United States. I don't know of a single hospital system that has met the requirements of the law. So I think they're all liable right now. And we do need people to step forward. And in fact, even the vaccine injured can step forward because they have the information that their case was not reported. So let's say you had a group of vaccine injured at another hospital system. They could come together, you know, bring their information together, show that it wasn't reported and they could actually file a lawsuit. So we've talked about that with the vaccine injured as well.

[0:27:02]
All of this was a bit on hold until the judge ruled on this case because we've been facing a motion to dismiss for quite a while now. And then the judge, you know, validated our theories, validated the case, said this is possible. And he just did that back in June, on June 11th.
[Interviewer]
Yeah. I'm going to talk about that in a minute. So just everyone, just to cut to the chase there, the RIH has tried to have this case dismissed twice and the judges now voted in favor of going ahead. And you guys are in discovery right now. So going back to those other hospital systems. So the vaccine injured could get together as a group and effectively become a new relator against another health systems.

Vaccine-Injured Individuals as Relators

It doesn't have to be a physician assistant like Deborah.
[Warner Mendenhall]
That's right. I mean, we certainly welcome people who have inside information. That's fantastic. But frankly, the vaccine injured themselves have inside information. Literally inside their bodies is the damage that was done by the shot that went unreported.
[Deborah Conrad]

[0:28:00]
So that's the main reporter for our hospital system. As I began to educate my fellow colleagues and the hospital staff, because none of them were.
[Warner Mendenhall]
That's the beauty of the Federal Faults Claims Act. Every single citizen has standing to bring the case if they have the information and the vaccine injuries themselves speak for themselves.
[Interviewer]
Yeah. Well, that's very important. Okay.

Government's Non-Involvement and Public Perception

You got a comment about, I just think it looks very bad to the American people. It should look very bad to the American people that the government is not coming into this case with Deborah, right? So what concerns me, what most people think is, well, if you're not going to back Deborah, then is this a fraud that you, the government ordered? Like, I know you can't make that accusation at this point, but isn't that what a lot of people will be wondering?
[Warner Mendenhall]
Well, if you remember, that actually did happen as a defense for Pfizer in that case, the Brooks Jackson case that Pfizer came in and said, basically, this is what you ordered.

[0:29:07]
We had no requirements for good manufacturing. We had no requirements for it to be safe or effective. You ordered it. We gave it to you. We got paid, go away. And the government in that case, of course, has said, you know, what we're doing in that case is contrary to the public health policy of the United States. Now, they haven't done that yet here. And I think it'll be interesting to see whether the government takes a position that's in opposition to what we're doing. I sure hope not. It makes no sense at all. You know, we have to, we have to begin to clean up, you know, and where either.

Impact of the Lawsuit on Hospital Systems

[Interviewer]
So just to get my head around an inpatient hospitalist, if I come in, let's say, I think I've had a heart attack, make America healthy again, right?
[Warner Mendenhall]
And this is these are mechanisms to do it.

[0:30:00]
You could fix this problem with this case. If Rochester Regional is held responsible for tens of millions of dollars in penalties, it's going to wake up 28 other hospital systems to the problem here. And I think Deb knows this. We're already seeing some reaction, though muted, to improve the system and improve the reporting. But it needs to, you know, it needs to spread virally throughout all the hospital systems. So that's my hope here.
[Interviewer]
Yeah, that's the big win. That's definitely the biggest impact you can make, Debra, is to change the whole environment. And that's why it's so worth fighting for. Yeah, I can see that. And this government, so it was the Biden government in February 2024 that said we're not getting involved. Did they, is that in a letter? Have they stated why?
[Warner Mendenhall]
You don't really get a reason. They state a declination. It's a straight declination letter.

[0:31:00]
Really not. They're not going to put that on in writing for you. They're just declining the case.

Details of the Lawsuit and Judge's Ruling

[Interviewer]
OK, so the guts of the lawsuit, I think when I read it, there were about six points. Is there a way to, I mean, I think you've already reviewed a lot of it saying basically the RRH received monies, but they didn't raise the VAERS reports and they were obligated to. But is there any other fine detail to this case? Because the judge actually, there were six points. And I think the judge said RRH wanted to dismiss everything. And I come into the hospital and like normally in Australia, we'd go in straight into admissions and there'd be a nurse there taking all the details at the beginning. Is that similar to your role? Or are you actually doing everything? The judge said, no, we're going ahead with four, isn't it? And two are gone.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Well, let's be a little bit clear. One of the difficulties in the False Claims Act, which we've overcome, is to plead the case with particularity, meaning we have to have exact examples of what happened.

[0:32:05]
And Deb had managed to save some documents and, you know, we presented a lot of documentation to the court. In fact, I think we had 170 examples, but they kind of had different arguments about those. Some of them were vaccinated off-site, not at Rochester Regional, for example. And our initial, our broader theory is that even if you're vaccinated off-site, just like with sexual abuse, even if you're abused off-site and you come into the hospital, it's a mandatory report. The judge didn't go with that. He said, look, they have to be vaccinated on-site and then return on-site for services. So it's a very tight loop there. Look, I'm happy to have survived to the extent that we have, believe me. And we can, you know, we live to continue to fight and we're going to get discovery about all the people, the tens of thousands of people that they vaccinated and then the tens of thousands of injuries that they treated.

[0:33:03]
So we're going to get that information. It's going to be the first revelation of the extent of this in a small hospital, you know, in a, you know, not a small, in a large hospital system. But I think people will be shocked to know that just in Rochester Regional, we've got tens of thousands of injuries.
[Interviewer]
When you said they have to be vaccinated on-site, that's anywhere in the RIH systems, right? So that's nine hospitals and.
[Warner Mendenhall]
That's correct. They have clinics and others.
[Interviewer]
Is she a doctor? Are you actually the first doctor that sees the patient?
[Deborah Conrad]
Yeah, I'm a provider. So, you know, we do a lot of the same type of care as a service area.
[Warner Mendenhall]
So anywhere they're providing this vaccination, quote unquote, vaccination service, those people who come back injured, they qualify under how the judge read the law.

Proving Vaccine Injuries in the System

[Interviewer]
And then when you said you have, you think you're going to find 10,000 people with vaccine injuries in the RIH system, how, how is that going to materialize?

[0:34:01]
Because what I was worried about, these people come into the hospital, they're injured, but no one's going to note on the paperwork that it's a vaccine injury. It doesn't matter.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Now I'll tell you how. First of all, we've already said if you come back and we're hospitalized for COVID, that's a reportable event. This is very simple, folks. We're going to have a list of everyone who's been supposedly vaccinated with the COVID shot. And then we'll have a list of everyone who came back later with COVID and was hospitalized. There, every one of those is a violation. You know, we don't have to show causality. The shot obviously didn't work. That's what creates the reporting requirement. There's myocarditis issues or stroke issues. There's other things, of course, that matter. But I think, you know, one of the things we do in the law is we really try to simplify and boil it down to something that's easy to understand. If this shot is really so bad and doesn't work and is completely ineffective, these hospital records show it.

[0:35:02]
And that alone, you know, it's not really the amount of money that matters. It's holding somebody responsible. So we actually probably will not be able to prove thousands of injuries. But if I could prove 1,000 injuries of people who came back to the hospital system after having gotten the shot from a physician or a doctor would do.
[Deborah Conrad]
So yes, in the U.S., you know, you would get triaged through, say, an emergency room or an urgent care for your acute need in the hospital system and were hospitalized.
[Warner Mendenhall]
It's still a multimillion dollar case and it will sting them and wake up all the systems in the United States.

Data Handover and Discovery Process

[Interviewer]
Got it. So they're going to have to hand over all their hospital admissions from 21, 22. And then you've got some sort of other system with the vaccine, the vaccination system. So you can match the name over. You see they were vaccinated within the RRH and you've got them. Right.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Right.
[Interviewer]
Wow. OK. And that's a very simple.
[Warner Mendenhall]
It's a very simple data analysis, actually. I mean, the amount of information and having to handle it and crunch the data.

[0:36:04]
But you can see the theory of how to find it is simple.
[Interviewer]
Yeah.
[Warner Mendenhall]
And we get to open up their books. No one else has done that for any hospital in the country on this issue.
[Interviewer]
The only one who's come close to doing something like this is a gentleman in New Zealand who was the database administrator. You probably know about the case.
[Speaker 4]
I do. Of course I do.
[Interviewer]
If he was I don't know where he is right now, but he might be good. He'd probably come and work for you for free, Warner.
[Speaker 4]
We'd love to have him. We need all the help we can get. All right. All right.

Challenges of Discovery and Jury Trial Request

[Interviewer]
So there were a few attempts to dismiss. Yeah, I think the RRH argued that only its employees involved in handling the covid vaccine should be able to trigger liability under the prior provider agreement. They tried that tactic.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah, the provider agreement is very clear. And the judge basically, you know, this judge is very, very bright, extremely intelligent.

[0:37:04]
He read everything we had submitted.
[Interviewer]
York area. In October 2021, she was fired by Rochester Regional Health for reporting covid-19 vaccine adverse events.
[Deborah Conrad]
And then they would determine, yes, if you need to be admitted to the hospital or you be discharged home, if they were ultimately admitted to the hospital, that I'm the next person in line.
[Warner Mendenhall]
He probably knew some of the stuff better than me because I had written it months before. You know, he's he he was really attentive to the case and he was really working through the process with us. In fact, he he was it was remarkable in that we had two approximately three hour long hearings before him to argue live, you know, with the the the hospital lawyers there and us there and just have it out, just like an old school, old style debate. And it's just wonderful to have that opportunity and that opportunity to respond to the judge and what his concerns were.

[0:38:06]
And in fact, it resulted in us rewriting the complaint and submitting an amended complaint, which I got to say, that process we went through very hard, very difficult, made our complaint better and stronger. And we survived the motion to dismiss with the second amended complaint. So I can't I just love the process the judge put us through. I don't necessarily have to agree with everything he ruled, but I just appreciate judges like that that really care about who's before them and what we're arguing.
[Interviewer]
That's fabulous. There was a statement in the claim that struck me it said this in your amended claim.

Alleged Motive for Fraud

RRH wanted to prioritize high vaccination numbers over mandatory safety monitoring, which suggests a motive to commit fraud.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah, they're avoiding a very clear responsibility that they have.

[0:39:00]
And I think some other things that were interesting interesting is to take care of you.
[Deborah Conrad]
And then I usually would do your admission. So I would do all the paperwork and the orders and everything and then follow you through.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Didn't Pfizer actually reach out to the hospital system as well?

Pfizer's Involvement and Information Suppression

[Deborah Conrad]
They actually reached out to me. They had sent me a letter asking, you know, I don't even really know what the letter was specifically for. It was it was just a letter addressed to me from Pfizer. Kind of like that, they that they know that I'm reporting vaccine injuries, you know, kind of thing is it was very strange. I don't I don't know.
[Warner Mendenhall]
But I think the one thing is that it's remarkable how attentive Pfizer is to anyone who pokes their head up and has a critique of the shot.

[0:40:00]
So, you know, and we've seen this with other clients as well. I mean, this company is aggressive about suppressing the information. And then and then Rochester Regional went along with the suppression aggressively. And, you know, it's it's hard for me to it's hard for me to get a get my head around it. I am hoping through our discovery process, we will get a get some insight into what all was going on in the background with these hospital systems. And I think the American Hospital Association is right in there as well. You know, these things were very centrally controlled. Messaging was centrally controlled. And so we're going to get into some of that as well in discovery.
[Interviewer]
So has that started the data handover?

Discovery Process and Centralized Control

Because that was June 11. This now we're mid-July.
[Warner Mendenhall]
No, not yet. No, we have a we actually have a meeting with the magistrate to set up how that's going to happen.
[Deborah Conrad]
Right.
[Interviewer]
Yeah.
[Deborah Conrad]
Do you think they're going to play games every day and also do your discharge when we get to that point?

[0:41:03]
Because I would do seven shifts on seven off. So for those patients that got admitted, say, on my first day, every process, oh, they always play games.
[Warner Mendenhall]
I mean, that's that's just par for the course.
[Interviewer]
Do I think I know they're going to play games because they did in the shower case, right?
[Warner Mendenhall]
They play games in every case. Yep.
[Interviewer]
Right. Great.
[Warner Mendenhall]
I mean, it's just it's just how it just how it goes. First of all, remember, you're dealing with electronic data sets, so you have to define the search terms. So there's a whole battle about that. And and and and those battles cause stuff to get missed. Yeah. The share a case. What happened there is, you know, just weeks before trial, we got additional medical records, which they should have been turned over years before. And and in fact, if you're going through those records, you always find, you know, where things seem to be missing. And in fact, in the share case, they were missing and they showed up late.
[Interviewer]

[0:42:00]
Right. Conveniently late.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah, really.
[Interviewer]
Now, you've requested a jury trial as well. Do you will you get that, do you think? Is that something you'll find out later?
[Warner Mendenhall]
Well, we have to survive. We've got another. So the theory of the case was tested on the motion to dismiss the facts of the case are going to be tested on the motion for summary judgment. So we have to develop our facts in a great, you know, in detail, you know, throughout this process. And we have to have enough facts to survive. And I think we do. I think we will find that and we will succeed in getting past summary judgment on that. We also have a we have to face summary judgment on Deb's employment retaliation claim.

Employment Retaliation Claim

[Deborah Conrad]
I would be their doctor, their provider, their entire hospitalization and stay with them too.
[Warner Mendenhall]
So we have to make sure we link her firing to her whistleblower activity. And they've already said, you kind of raised this earlier, they've already intimated that, well, she wasn't going to take the shot anyway, and that was mandated.

[0:43:03]
So she was going to get fired anyway. So that's already at play. We'll see if we'll see what the judge has to say about that.
[Interviewer]
They've got to be on weak ground with that one, because as I just discussed with Deb, she got walked out a whole month, month and a half before the other people's religious exemptions were. There's just, yeah, it's not looking good for them. And you've got emails, right, Deb, as well.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Oh, yeah.
[Interviewer]
We've got senior staff saying, you know, cease and desist, the VA stuff. And yeah.
[Deborah Conrad]
And I was the only one fired that day. I was the only one. There was no one else. The other religious exemption people weren't.
[Interviewer]
Yeah.
[Warner Mendenhall]
We'll have access to their email servers, too. So we'll get a bunch more emails.
[Interviewer]
Oh, that would be good.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah. No, I want to see what they were talking about behind the scenes among themselves about Deb. That's what Deb has in the email sent to her, terrible. But what were they saying behind her back? I think that's going to be fascinating to see.

[0:44:01]
And was there any government communication? And was there any communication with Pfizer, Moderna or J&J through this process?
[Interviewer]
Oh, wow. Because that happened in the case. That's so important.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah. No, we get to open them up and find out what's in there.
[Interviewer]
Oh, I bet you're looking forward to seeing those, Debra. You must be.
[Deborah Conrad]
Yes, I guess, you know, you hate to think that people were saying awful things about you. You know, these were my, it's hard. These were my friends. You know, these were colleagues that I worked with first. And as a hospitalist, we are the ultimate ones in charge.

Emotional Toll and Trust in the Medical System

So we are 100% in charge of your care. We order consultants 15 years. And it is, it's hard to believe, even to this day, that they would have allowed themselves to, I don't know, put this stuff in front of patient safety. These are medical providers. I say these are medical providers who took an oath to do no harm.

[0:45:02]
And that is against everything that we stand for. There's so much at stake here. You know, just, just patients don't trust the medical system as it is. And so this case is either gonna, I don't know, if we, if this doesn't, it doesn't go the right way, you know, I guess, people are going to lose even more faith. You know, we stand to help restore some justice to the medical system that's so broken, I guess.
[Interviewer]
I know you're going to be upset to hear your colleagues saying stuff about you. But I also think, I mean, in your mind, are you not also thinking about those patients that walked in, you saw them, they came in injured, their lives broken. You, you know, they, they need to have someone to fight for them. They're worth more than your, I hate to say this, but they're worth more than your colleagues.
[Deborah Conrad]

[0:46:00]
Yeah, they are.

Impact of Lawsuits and Policy Changes Needed

[Warner Mendenhall]
You know, I want to point out, you know, I know people get frustrated with cases and, and what, you know, we lost the Sharer case, for example. And, you know, but in some ways, it's interesting, even a losing case has had a tremendous impact in terms of opening up what the mentality and the attitudes were, when you have to go and sit in a trial for two or three weeks, it's to come in and things like that, and, and physical therapy and all of that.
[Deborah Conrad]
But we're your kind of gatekeepers in the hospital.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Okay, that's given me a much better idea, because you're really telling the public what you actually believe. And it's completely ridiculous, which I think will would happen here as well. The public gets, you know, the court of public opinion is a separate court that we deal with all the time. And, you know, it's a very important court. So whether the jurors get it or not, the court of public opinion often does. And then that can change, you know, legislation that can put bring political pressure.

[0:47:02]
And it's really, you know, we need to keep moving with media, lawsuits, you know, political pressure, you know, we're not, there's three or four different directions, we can all be going in at once to try to fix the system. I'll give you a couple of, you know, Deb and I talked the other day about a couple of policy changes that we need to have. You know, these, the reason there's accountability right now is because of an EUA. But the vaccines that are not under EUA, there's really not, the accountability argument is much more attenuated. So I'd like to strengthen that, make sure there's accountability under the False Claims Act, or some other penalty for all vaccines. The second thing is, Deb was talking about the time doctors and nurses spend doing the reporting, we need to make sure that they're paid for the reporting. You know, the pharmacists at the Walgreens could be paid for doing a report that takes an hour and the follow up so that there's a billing code for the injury and for the reporting effort.

[0:48:04]
And then, you know, just enforce the laws that are out there, we're don't have, we have no enforcement going on right now.
[Interviewer]
Seeing them, you're second, you're the second person that sees them and you're following them through and you're also seeing them through to discharge. So you're getting a really good picture of what's going on. So you must have, tell me what, when did you first know?
[Warner Mendenhall]
At all. You know, so come on, you know, come on, DOJ, Pam Bondi, you know, Bobby, let's get some enforcement going. And let's train our healthcare personnel. Debbie already told you, there was no training on this. Nothing. Nobody knows. They don't even know, a lot of them don't even know it exists. And then, you know, my final policy recommendation is put Deb in charge of affairs.
[Interviewer]
Are you working? You implied you are working somewhere, Deb.

Deborah's Current Employment

Did you get a job somewhere else?
[Deborah Conrad]
Yes, I did. I did get a job just part-time though. But yes.

[0:49:01]
And it's a small family practice that's private. So it's very difficult in any area to find a private practice that's not associated with a health system. Okay. So yeah.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Because we've destroyed private practitioners over the last couple of decades. That's why. It moved from 80% private, 20% through the hospitals and it's totally flipped. 80% of physicians and nurses and other healthcare personnel are now in these big systems and they're following these policies, procedures, and protocols that are very, very dangerous.

Impact of Government Involvement in the Case

[Interviewer]
What difference would it make if the government changed their mind, if there was some way to approach HHS and get them to join this case? What difference does it make when you're in the case? It obviously strengthens your side?
[Warner Mendenhall]
Well, yeah.
[Interviewer]
I mean, these vaccine injured were coming in in New York because the rollout started in New York, what, January, 2021?
[Deborah Conrad]

[0:50:08]
Late December.
[Warner Mendenhall]
And in my area, I've got a handful of attorneys here trying to do this work. Now we have teamed up with other firms such as Erin Seary. Erin was on this case initially and did a fantastic job in terms of defending Deb while she was employed. He called us a couple of months ago and they asked to come in and assist. We were very happy to have his assistance. And he brings a level of visibility as well to the case that I think is really important. So we've built a very good legal team. I think it's the best people in the country to be working on this right now, but we don't have the resources that the system does. This is a multi-billion dollar system.

[0:51:01]
They can spend millions and millions of dollars on their defense and they've already done so. And we're not getting paid while we're doing this case. So we get paid at the end of the case. And it'd be nice to have the federal government come in. First of all, they have all the data sets that we need. The federal government already has them. The data analysis that needs to be done, the federal government already has the data analysts to do it. So come on, jump in. Water's fine. Help us get this done. We could wrap this up very quickly if we had the federal government involved.
[Interviewer]
Wow. Okay. It does make a difference.

Timeline for the Lawsuit

What was the timeline? I was going to ask you that. Oh, you've got this motion for summary judgment. When do you think that will be?
[Deborah Conrad]
We only had certain types of vaccines available. I think the first one that we had available was Johnson & Johnson because of the freezer requirements.
[Warner Mendenhall]

[0:52:05]
Well, all these dates are going to be set here in the next couple of weeks. So we'll probably do a year of discovery. Then there'll be summary judgment motions. If we survive that, then there'll be a trial date and we're going to go to trial.
[Interviewer]
Okay. So we've got another year to go. All right.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Oh, at least. Oh, yeah. It could be a year and a half. Yeah.

Evidence of Medical Record Tampering

[Interviewer]
I was just going to mention to Deb, I was just going to ask her, I noticed somewhere in one of the documents, alarmingly, you found proof that someone had removed the COVID vaccination from one of the patient's medical discharge notes.
[Deborah Conrad]
So in that particular case, what had happened was there was a gentleman that came into our emergency room less than 48 hours after he received a second COVID vaccine in basically multi-organ failure, sudden multi-organ failure and respiratory distress.

[0:53:00]
And he had a massive heart attack and just he had crashed. And the symptoms started within a few hours of having had a second vaccine. And in the emergency room when he came in, the emergency room physician, the emergency room resident and the admitting physician all documented that he had just received his COVID vaccine. So they documented that this had happened. And then what ultimately happened after he died is the discharging physician who did the death certificate and the discharge summary did not have anything about the vaccination or any of the history of such in this patient's chart. So what happened is the daughter case that were needed for the mRNA, because it would destabilize. So we would, I believe we gave the Johnson & Johnson first and it was pretty immediate because the one of the first things we were seeing, particularly with the Johnson back and demanded that the medical records be changed to document what happened and to, you know, because normally in a medical record, you carry through whatever happened in the ER, the admission through to their discharge.

[0:54:19]
In this particular patient's case, the mention of the vaccine being involved in any way from the medical record. And the daughter said, this is basically, you know, fraud. This is medical records fraud. And she wants the accurate story to be listed and the hospital refused to do it. And she, she contacted the state, she contacted, she had some attorney representation through Erin Seery. And that was, you know, reprimanded me and everything, the same thing. They refused to addend the medical records to put down the accuracy of what happened.

[0:55:04]
They refused to put the vaccine in there.
[Interviewer]
Okay. So you've, was that patient vaccinated in the RRH system?
[Deborah Conrad]
No, they were not.
[Interviewer]
They were not.
[Deborah Conrad]
Okay. But this is, they were vaccinated at a local pharmacy.
[Interviewer]
At a local pharmacy. But this is an example. So they're going to use, if you bring this case up as part of your complaint, they're going to say, well, it wasn't a vaccination within the RRH. But are you using this as an example of how they're attempting to the VAERS system, which is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, at the hospital where she worked, which was UMMC, United Memorial Medical Center.
[Deborah Conrad]
Johnson & Johnson was the clotting issue. So we were seeing people coming in with heart attacks and strokes and blood clots, just a very unusual scenario.
[Interviewer]
They're committing fraud because they're covering up the safety issues of this vaccine.

Intimidation of Healthcare Providers

[0:56:02]
Yeah, you'll bring this case up?
[Deborah Conrad]
That and the resident. So the resident that was involved in this particular case, how I, this was not my patient at all in the hospital. How I learned of this patient is the resident in the ER came to me behind the scenes and said, there's this patient we had in the ER, you need to report this because this is what's going on. And she herself did not want to report it because she was afraid of what would happen to her if she tried to report the case. So this is basically just showing the intimidation that was going on, the fact that other providers were afraid to report cases because of retaliation and worry of their own jobs. Now she was a resident, so she had a lot on the line if she started causing trouble, right? She would put a lot on the line, she could lose her residency spot.

[0:57:01]
So she's one of the individuals that's willing to come forward and talk about what happened there.
[Interviewer]
Yeah. So this resident will come into the court case if you call her in or him in, right? Yes. This intimidation is the big story that we need to get across to the public as well. Because when people say, oh, not that many people were vaccine injured, I'm like, well, yeah, they were. The doctors wouldn't report. The doctors were bullied. Our Australian doctors were horribly bullied. And I can see in your hospital system.
[Deborah Conrad]
And isn't it interesting, they're all using you because you're already caught.

Colleagues Relying on Deborah for Reporting

Videos of patients that didn't have histories or they were on blood thinners already and they had blood clots and strokes and stuff.
[Interviewer]
So it's just easier just to keep giving you all the reports. And that way I guess they relieve their conscience a little.
[Deborah Conrad]
Exactly.
[Interviewer]
Yeah.
[Deborah Conrad]

[0:58:00]
Exactly. And they trusted me, right? They knew I was going to carry through with this and I was, you know, not going to stop fighting for what was right. I mean, this is a safety issue.

The Importance of VAERS Reporting for Public Trust

I mean, really, that's what it comes down to, right? This is a safety issue. I'm not saying that these patients are all vaccine injured or that they are. You know, I'm not. All I'm doing is filing the reports to the system that we're told as Americans is the system that assures us that all vaccines are safe. Right. So, I mean, it's just it's this their system is assurance to the American public that all these vaccines on the market that we give to our kids, that that we're monitoring the safety and everything safe. Well, if we've got a hospital system that's suppressing the reporting and silencing the doctors who are trying to file these reports, what do we have? How can we have faith in anything? Right.

[0:59:00]
And so, you know, we're in a state in this country where, you know, trust in vaccines is really becoming an issue. And this is not going to help the situation if this case doesn't move forward or we don't hold these people accountable. How are people going to if we're just going to allow hospitals to suppress medical providers on safety reporting? How can we have trusted them with that? And also, we started seeing inpatient admissions for COVID infection, which these vaccines we were told was supposed to prevent. So vaccines are, in fact, safe. Right.
[Interviewer]
Yeah. Yeah. And that's why we know that comes back to the new HHS people. You know, if you want things to improve, you want to make America healthy again, you've got to fix this issue.

Call to Action for Accountability

[Warner Mendenhall]
Well, and, you know, I just let's let's bring this back around to, you know, what we just what I described earlier is a way that individuals can bring accountability.

[1:00:01]
We have twenty eight hundred systems that failed their duty is my view. We have you know, if you look at the disability reports, we have four million roughly injured people. We have maybe eight hundred thousand dead from this. So, you know, the injury has just been tremendous. It affects about, you know, a little over one percent of our population. Those that one percent can make a difference. And this is a pathway to make that difference. And we're trying you know, we're trying to. You know, this was a this was really just a test run and it worked. And we're sharing that with other attorneys through our group, FreedomCouncil.org. And so we have some attorneys that are willing to take these cases on throughout the country. And now we need, you know, victims and professionals to step forward and bring these cases. And I will say this for the professionals. These cases are filed under seal. So, you know, if you wanted to file one, we could do what we can, you know, to protect your identity.

[1:01:03]
Even in these cases, Deb chose not to do that. She filed it under her own name. But you can file it other ways that do help protect your identity and see what how the federal government responds. And then the vaccine.
[Deborah Conrad]
So that was a big, you know, red flag. What is going on? And that was before we were then told you needed a second.
[Warner Mendenhall]
You know, you had to have the second injured really ought to push for the federal government to intervene on all these hospitals, create the training programs, emphasize the mandatory reporting and start fining them, fine them for the violations and recover some of this money, the billions and billions of dollars that we've misspent in our health care system. So that those are my those are a few prescriptions for me.
[Interviewer]
The vaccine, the vaccine injured, if they won their case against a hospital system, that money.

Financial Implications of Winning a Qui Tam Case

[Warner Mendenhall]
It goes back, goes back to the government because they've got most of it, most of it goes back to the government.

[1:02:05]
But there's always a set aside for the person who brought the case forward. It's usually a small amount. You know, it's you know, but I mean, let's let's look at it this way. If you have a thousand injured times 13,000, that's 13 million. And let's say we had a handful of people who brought that case there. There should be a pot of some money at the end of that as a reward for organizing themselves, getting the information brought forward and bringing that case. And that's the reality. I mean, you know, we know let's say we had five people who joined, joined together to bring one of these cases. Well, we're going to find a thousand or two thousand injuries treated at that hospital. And that's another thing I want to just make sure we emphasize, which you've talked about a little bit here, Deb.

No Causality Requirement for Reporting

There's no causality requirement.

[1:03:01]
So we're not we're not looking at a causality requirement here. Some people think, oh, well, you don't know whether the vaccine caused that injury or not. Well, it doesn't matter.
[Deborah Conrad]
And then be two weeks out of the second dose to be considered fully vaccinated.
[Warner Mendenhall]
It doesn't matter if you got myocarditis and you were hospitalized. There's a claim. If you've got COVID after you got the shot, there's a claim. It doesn't matter whether it caused it or not or had anything to do with it. Those are mandatory reporting events.
[Interviewer]
So I like that.
[Warner Mendenhall]
I like that quite a bit.
[Interviewer]
So that's an essential point. I saw that in the case.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah.
[Interviewer]
Yeah. You don't have to prove it. It just has to be, you know, suspicious.
[Warner Mendenhall]
It's all in those categories.
[Interviewer]
And we got because they were obligated to report it. It's someone else's job to link up the causality.
[Warner Mendenhall]
That's right.
[Interviewer]
The hospital had to.

Why Suppression of Reporting is Problematic

[Deborah Conrad]
And I always say, you know, they talk about it. You know, all these vaccines are safe and effective. That's all we ever hear from well, if they truly are, then what is the issue with reporting to VAERS?

[1:04:02]
Why are we suppressing providers? Why are we not educating providers about the VAERS system? Why are we not encouraging reporting if they are safe and effective? We should have nothing to worry about. Right. No one should be worried because there's so few vaccine injuries out there because we're so sure that they're safe. So why are we suppressing it? It doesn't make sense. Right. I don't know. I've often said that it's make they call me the person that's making people vaccine hesitant. No, I'm not the person making people vaccine hesitant. It's it's it's the fact that it's insane.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah, I think people have I think people are awakening and I think people now understand that.
[Deborah Conrad]
So that that scenario came after they started realizing that people were getting COVID shortly after they were vaccinated.

Concerns about mRNA Platform and Future Vaccines

[Warner Mendenhall]
Vaccines in general have a lot of problems.

[1:05:00]
And then these MRNA platforms, you know, and let's look forward. I mean, they've got, you know, maybe 100 MRNA back quote unquote vaccines under investigation right now. And I mean, there's a flu one going on in Cleveland right now that I know of. And I'm like, you know, none of it works. The lipid nanoparticles are incredibly toxic. The pseudouridine incredibly toxic. You know, so and none of that, you know, none of that has been tested in a way or proven to be safe at all yet in my book. Yet they're barreling forward with this stuff. And we've seen, you know, I think that they need to just stop that platform period at the national level. Let's stop using it. And then and let's also remember that our animals are subject to these. Our cats, our dogs, our pigs, our cattle, you know, they're subject to these types of things, too. So we need to not overlook our animal brothers and sisters out there that are, you know, getting hit with this stuff.

[1:06:03]
And God knows what it does when we ingest it. So there's a lot to be aware of. I don't want to scare people too badly, but this platform needs to die right now.
[Interviewer]
Yeah. And if the VAERS had been done properly from the start, I mean, my theory is if it had all been done properly in early 2021, the rollout should have stopped.

VAERS System Failures and Historical Context

[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah, right. Of course. Oh, yeah. The red flag signals through VAERS went off right away. And any other shot would have been stopped immediately.
[Interviewer]
So I interviewed a nurse from Queensland in 2021, and she was in a similar role to you. It's interesting how, but of course, our rollout was so much later.
[Warner Mendenhall]
We've overlooked the historical functioning of the VAERS program in order to push this on an unsuspecting population.
[Interviewer]
Yeah.

Deborah's Diligence in VAERS Reporting

I actually do have a question for Deb. I don't know if anyone's ever asked you this, because I was watching the VAERS system quite carefully in 2021.

[1:07:02]
Any of the reports you raised, Deb, did they disappear off the VAERS systems?
[Deborah Conrad]
No, not for me personally, but again, what was happening with me was I was, so I was documenting. So, and I don't, I truly don't think anyone else did this. I could be wrong, but any VAERS report that I filed in the medical chart, so actually in the medical record, I documented VAERS report filed based on mandatory reporting requirements under an EUA. That's in the patient's medical record. And I would put the patient's VAERS number, and then I would save the email from VAERS. And if they didn't send me the permanent record number, I would call them and demand it. So you have to be very diligent. I mean, yes, I have heard of many providers who would file VAERS reports and they would get their temporary number and never get a permanent number and then couldn't find it.

[1:08:09]
Well, I would make sure that I get that permanent record. And I would tell the VAERS people when I called, I'd say, listen, this patient needs their permanent record. I want it. You know? So, I mean, there's so much that goes into this as a responsible medical provider to follow up.
[Interviewer]
And it's, sorry, I interviewed her in 2022. Our rollout was so much later than the U.S. because we, Australia, sat back and watched, still did it anyway. But her story, yeah.
[Deborah Conrad]
No one's going to do that. Right. You know, no one's, no one is going to do that. An unpaid time and all of that to make sure we do this right. The system is just so broken. I can't even tell you.

Need for VAERS System Revamp

[Interviewer]
Well, that clearly needs, that's another bucket list task for the HHS. They need to revamp it, fix it.
[Deborah Conrad]
It's not that hard.

[1:09:00]
And with our electronic health records, it would be so easy right now to get, you know, to find these signals. Because you just, you just look at what the patient's being admitted for, how long after vaccination, and it'd be very easy. You know, back when we had paper charts, I'm sure this thing was, was a lot more difficult. But now that we have electronic health records, I think finding a signal for unsafe vaccines is very easy. I think it's just being ignored.
[Warner Mendenhall]
You create a code under the ICD-10 that says, hey, potential vaccine injury, mandatory VAERS report. Bink, hit the code and it's reported. That's it.
[Deborah Conrad]
Simple.
[Interviewer]
I was going to point out to everybody that Debra actually has a website, imdebconrad.com.

Deborah's Website and Call for Support

And on there are all the complaints that have been filed, the motions to dismiss. And I guess I'm assuming that's a really good way for people to follow your case as well, is just to go to your website.

[1:10:00]
Is there anything else you wanted me to point out on the internet that people could look at if they want to follow your case?
[Deborah Conrad]
I mean, certainly if they want, if they want to donate, that would be wonderful. If they could donate to the, to the, to the case to help us fund it, like Warner had talked about. And, and also if they actually on the website, it also is so similar to you.
[Interviewer]
It's very similar, a whole lot of not normal. And when you're really experienced, she was about 50 years old, really experienced, you see it right away. You know, when something's happened in the community, something completely different.
[Deborah Conrad]
Yeah, there's no, no links to the original interview that I did with Dell big tree way back in 2021. When I, you know, first came out, the, the wall street journal or the New York times, I'm sorry that I did that's behind a payroll. So I don't think that can be accessed, but the the high wire certainly episode is on there and people can watch the original interview.

[1:11:00]
Yeah. Which caused we're keeping the website updated and, and so that the public can see what's going on and, and all of that.
[Interviewer]
Okay. I mean, the other thing that people can do is make noise with Bobby Kennedy and the HHS to get the government to come in and get involved in this case.

Call for Government Intervention and Policy Changes

So maybe if we make some noise on Twitter and on social media and demand the government get involved, they should be.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah. And, and Bobby could file an omnibus complaint against all the healthcare systems. It's so, you know, you just, they should really address the entire healthcare community and just file an omnibus complaint against all 2,800 systems and, and just hold them accountable. Tell them they have, or they have to report. How did they report their bears? You know, very simple effort could, could take place there and just get everybody in line. And then, like I said, I mean, you know, even the older types of vaccines, we need to have this same accountability for them.

[1:12:03]
We don't have it yet. Under the federal false claims act, it needs to be an explicit accountability. I have a, I do have a theory for Bobby about how I think they should be held accountable.
[Interviewer]
So, okay. So now let's get back to this other, a really alarming fact.

Lack of VAERS Reporting Training

No one knows how to raise a VAERS report. You couldn't find anyone who knew how to raise one. You had to teach yourself.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Without this program participation agreement, but let's just make it explicit here. If you don't report, you get fined. Boom. That'll take care of it right now. And on the other hand, that's the, that's the stick. Here's the carrot. Pay people to make the reports so that we get good, accurate reporting and people aren't hesitant to make those reports.
[Interviewer]
Yeah.

Mandated Reporting for All Vaccine Providers

GPs can, we call them GPs in Australia, just normal general practice doctors. Sorry, I don't know. I always forget your term. Like say, say I got a COVID shot with my normal provider and I just go into my little medical center where I normally go for my medical needs.

[1:13:03]
And I say, look, I've been feeling sick since I had the shot. That person can raise a VAERS report as well. It doesn't have to be done.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Anyone who's providing the shot signed a provider agreement. So they're all mandated. Anyone who got the shot, county governments, local governments, you know, drugstores, hospitals, you know, any, any physicians practice, anything, schools, you know, say university has a big medical system and provided shots to the students are all mandated under the provider agreement.
[Interviewer]
Okay. So even the little GP at a medical center is committing fraud if they don't raise the VAERS report.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yep.
[Deborah Conrad]
Interesting. Just like Warner said with like child abuse laws, I'm a mandated reporter. I don't care where the child abuse is occurring or that I'm not involved. It doesn't matter if somebody comes to me and discloses, or I have suspicion, I am required to report that.
[Interviewer]

[1:14:04]
Okay. Deborah is suing RRH, a new MMC as the relator in a key term lawsuit for violation of the federal false claims act.
[Deborah Conrad]
Okay. Yeah, that's exactly.

Challenges with Pharmacy Reporting

And it is not an easy task because the system is, I don't consider where they, you know, that's, that's, what's kind of crazy about this whole thing is how would the pharmacy know where that the patient was admitted to the hospital with a vaccine injury, if the hospital doesn't notify the pharmacy that gave the shot, right? So it's, it's, it's, it needs to be fixed. Let me put it that way. We actually had a patient like that in the hospital that was given a two doses of the same vaccine because the first dose, the pharmacist wasn't sure if they gave them the entire dose. So they just gave them another dose. And then this patient was admitted with a arrhythmia of the heart to the hospital.

[1:15:04]
And I actually called that pharmacy and I said, you gave these two vaccines together back to back. And now this patient's admitted to the hospital, you file this report. And they laughed at me. They literally laughed at me and said, we don't do that. We don't even keep records of these patients.

Pharma Companies' Duty to Report

[Warner Mendenhall]
We do think that that's a way to make the pharmacies liable under this. So the, those that were injured by a pharmacy or at a pharmacy they could notify the pharmacy of their injury in their hospital stay. And then the pharmacy is on the hook to report. The other thing is the big pharma companies themselves have a duty to report. If they've been notified of one of these events post-vaccination, they have an obligation as well. So Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, et cetera, et cetera, you know, they haven't, they're on the hook too. So there are two other major, those are other major sources of potential, you know, that could cause liability for the drug stores and for the pharma companies.
[Deborah Conrad]

[1:16:08]
It's not easy to report too. Again, it was, it's very clunky. It would time out on you. And, you know, you'd get through.
[Interviewer]
So if a pharmacist was administering this drug the wrong way, like, I remember with the Pfizer, you didn't, I don't know if you saw it, but it was meant to be a powder.

Importance of Feedback Loop for Batch Issues

You mix in the fluid, the saline, and then you would get in that one, it's a multi-dose vial. You get six shots in the vial and the instruction said, do not shake, right? So you can't shake. So if the salt and the water separate, what could happen technically, if you're giving it to six people, the person who gets either the first or the last one, I'm not sure which way it goes depending on how you turn the thing, it's going to cop a bigger dose. It's not going to be equal through the six.

[1:17:01]
So if the way you as a pharmacist are administering the multi-dose vial is incorrect and you are constantly giving one person out of six, everyone's dose, right? In making them really sick and the others are unprotected, right? How are you going to know you're administering incorrectly if there is this feedback loop and the hospital doesn't start ringing and saying, oi, all these people that came to your pharmacy, all these really seriously injured patients, they're from your pharmacy. Maybe your administration of the product is wrong.
[Deborah Conrad]
Well, it's interesting. One thing that we forget is a lot of our emergency room and urgent cares, they were getting ambulances right from the pharmacy. I can't even tell you how many times that happened. The ambulance would be parked outside the pharmacy because the people would get their shots, pass out, whatever, anaphylaxis, whatever was going on, and they'd bring them right to our ER. And you would think, again, if that provider knew about their entire report and then you'd click to continue and file the report and the system would just crash and you would lose your entire report.

[1:18:10]
They would call the pharmacy and say, hey, did you file a VAERS report because your patient's now in the ER? They should have known because they called the ambulance, right? But again, nobody's even thinking, oh, I should probably file. I mean, again, that's the perfect scenario. How can you not say it was the vaccine, right? But even then they tried. Some of my audits were people literally coming right from pharmacies to the ER. It's not the vaccine. It's something else, right? That's crazy. It's crazy.
[Interviewer]
Yeah. So that loop back to the pharmacy is important. The other reason I was thinking in my head that the loop back to whoever is the person injecting is what if there's a rogue batch and it's not the pharmacy's fault. It's not the provider's fault. It's the manufacturing's fault.

[1:19:00]
But if you don't go back, that pharmacy or that manufacturer, that provider might have a whole ton of those vials for that batch sitting there. If you came back quickly and said, oh, we're getting all these people coming in with that batch injured. The doctor could put that batch away, throw it in the bin, right? Then report it to Pfizer. But in the meantime, don't hurt any more of your patients. So dirty batches aren't being taken care of if there isn't that loop back. Right.

Narrative of Vaccine Infallibility

[Deborah Conrad]
But I think there's just this where they do not want any bad discussion about vaccines. Vaccines have nothing wrong with them. So that's the narrative that just took you an hour to do. So then I got to the point that I started cutting and pasting. They're almost like a god in the sense that there is nothing wrong with vaccines. No one gets injured. No one's harmed. And so by acknowledging, yeah, there may be a manufacturing problem would put the public in some fear, right?

[1:20:02]
They'd have some fear, which would then maybe make them vaccine hesitant. So it just keeps coming back to this where we cannot have any negativity surrounding vaccines, even if it means compromising safety. It's really a shame.
[Interviewer]
Well, it's not science. So it isn't. Well, I want to do you have anything else you want to discuss?

Conclusion and Future Outlook

Sorry, I was just gonna say, wish you good luck.
[Speaker 4]
No, thank you, Elizabeth.
[Interviewer]
I wish you good luck with the discovery process. I'm sure that's going to be fun.
[Speaker 4]
And I'm very excited to get started on this.
[Warner Mendenhall]
Yeah.
[Interviewer]
Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for both of you. Thank you. Thank you, Elizabeth, so much.
[Speaker 4]
Good night.
[Deborah Conrad]
Thanks, guys. The various report in like a Word document. So in case I lost it, I would have something to be able to go back to.
[Interviewer]
Don't you think it's odd that the consultant, I would have thought the person who was going to raise the various report would be the consultant.

Why Consultants Don't File VAERS Reports

[1:21:01]
So say it was someone coming with a heart attack, the cardiologist or the surgeon working on the heart. I thought they would raise the various report. But I'm getting the impression they wouldn't do it. And so you did it because no one else would.
[Deborah Conrad]
Right. And I mean, the consultants don't get me wrong. There were some of our consultants that saw weird stuff too. And they were commenting on the amount of appendicitis cases, for instance, that we were seeing shortly after the rollout of the vaccines. But just like all of the medical providers, we're so busy, especially our consultants that to even think about filing this report that, again, can sometimes take you an hour to do. And then you're committed to follow up reports that they're going to be emailing you and trying Warner Mendenhall is an attorney representing Deb.
[Interviewer]
He has a law firm in Ohio. He's also represented Brooke Jackson and another False Claims Act case.
[Deborah Conrad]
To get additional medical records, the providers don't have time for that, nor do they want to deal with that.

[1:22:04]
And if they weren't taught, again, they had no idea even how to do it or who to go to to ask, how do we do this? So I just like everything else, I think a lot of people just assume someone else is going to do it.
[Interviewer]
Yeah.
[Deborah Conrad]
Yeah.
[Interviewer]
So this is a conversation because then now what would you say to people that are saying, well, if these vaccines were so dangerous, we would have a lot more VAERS reports.

Addressing Underreporting in VAERS

What would you say to that?
[Deborah Conrad]
That we would have a lot more. I think there's I mean, when we look at the COVID vaccines compared to all the other vaccines that are on the schedule, you know, certainly the COVID vaccines had the most VAERS reports ever filed really in history. But still, the underreporting factor, that's I think that's what we know. There's a huge underreporting factor even for the childhood vaccines. So the scary thing is, you know, we and I haven't looked at open VAERS lately to see exactly how many VAERS reports that have been filed up to this point.

[1:23:04]
But can you imagine with the underreporting factor that they talk about exactly how many VAERS reports should have been filed, which equates to how many injured people there are out there? It's really scary. It really is.
[Interviewer]
So how many VAERS reports do you think you successfully managed to raise in the end?

Deborah's Extensive VAERS Reporting Experience

Close to 200. Okay.
[Deborah Conrad]
I've got an important question. I really think at this point, I am the person in the US who has filed the most VAERS reports. Because it's funny. You know, I don't know, I'm kind of like on a first name basis with the people at VAERS. And the family of Grace Shara just recently.
[Interviewer]
So Debra, we'll start with you. Can you explain what your job was at the hospital? And why were you entering the VAERS reports?
[Deborah Conrad]
They know me, because I've done so many of them.

[1:24:00]
But even still, I just did one the other day. And it was an extremely frustrating process still. And here we are, three or four years after I started doing this. And the system has not been improved upon even with all these people filing. It's ridiculous. It times out on you still.
[Interviewer]
You know, we have the exact same problem with the system that we have in our country. It's clunky and it's old. I think it's deliberately not been improved to make it difficult and to dissuade people from raising VAERS reports. That's my personal opinion, but that'll remain as a conspiracy on my part.

Hospital's Attempt to Stop Deborah's Reporting

I wanted to ask you, you raised 200, but there was a statement made in your legal complaint that you were stopped from raising, was it 170 of them? How did they stop you?
[Deborah Conrad]
So when I originally started reporting these side effects to VAERS, and I was raising the concern with my health system and my colleagues and fellow leadership, they initially, I think, thought that it was only going to be a few people, that there really wasn't as big of a deal going on as I was making it out to be, they thought.

[1:25:14]
So it wasn't until I kept pressing the issue because I was getting so swamped with these reports once everyone was giving them to me, I kept going back to my local leadership and telling them we need to enact a system. I can't be the only person doing this because, you know, again, I was, it wasn't about. So my job, I had, I had two appointments at the hospital. I was an inpatient hospitalist, so I was an on the ground money, but I wasn't getting paid. And on my days off, I was spending my whole days off doing these reports and being on the phone and whatnot. And it was very frustrating. Plus you have to follow up with the patient. They need to know you're filing these reports and that they're in their medical records.

[1:26:01]
And, and so it wasn't until I kept pressing the issue that then my local leadership went to the system leadership and had discussions with them about what was happening in the small community that I live in. And then what happened was they did an audit. They notified me they were going to audit so many of these reports that I filed. So again, I looked at what was required reporting and I picked patients that met that scenario to a T, gave them these patients, and then they came back and said, we audited you. And basically everybody thinks you're overreporting and that you're seeing stuff that no one else is seeing. So they said, basically, as a result of this, we're not going to let you report on patients that you're not directly involved with anymore. So they said, if anyone else comes to you and says, Hey, I've got this patient, can you file this report? You're not to do it any longer. And their plan was they wanted me to know, to put it in this hospital system called SafeConnect, which was a, I don't know where it goes, but it's basically a hospital system where we basically tell on each other if we're not doing the right thing.

[1:27:14]
Right. And so I was supposed to then put this patient in this system and say, you know, somebody's physician assistant hospitalist taking care of the inpatients that were admitted to our facility. So I was a provider and I also worked in leadership as the advanced practice provider director for our hospital system. So and so is not filing a VAERS report. But I told them, I said, well, when I do this, I get no feedback. Nobody tells me if the report was ever filed or if anything was followed up upon. And they basically said, it's not your business. And I said, well, it is my business because this is a required requirement under the EUA. You know, this is a legal thing. And I know that these things aren't being filed.

[1:28:00]
And you're basically telling me to just turn my cheek kind of thing. And I just couldn't do that. So that's how that all came down.

Hospital's "Over-reporting" Claim and Lack of Transparency

[Interviewer]
That comment about over-reporting, the requirement, as I understand it for VAERS, is if there's anything, if someone has been vaccinated recently, any kind of side effect that they have, any kind of illness needs to be reported because it's under an EUA. It still needs to be watched. So what did they think was over-reporting? Do you have an example?
[Deborah Conrad]
No, I wasn't. I wasn't allowed to be involved in that audit or to have any comment or was able to question it at all. You know, I did speak with the president of our hospital about that audit. And I asked him, you know, why was I not allowed to be in this audit? You know, these are my patients. This is my work. And there just wasn't any answer, you know.
[Interviewer]

[1:29:01]
So this comment where they said you can't raise VAERS reports that are not your patients. So I'm going to take it from that, that other doctors or nurses were coming to you and saying, it looks like this person's got an adverse event from the vaccine. Can you raise the VAERS report? So it sounds like your colleagues are waking up and saying,

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