Dr Mary Bowden on Tucker Carlson

Published 2 Apr 2025

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[Tucker Carlson]

Introduction and Dr. Bowden's stance on COVID-19

So thank you for coming. So I want to, okay, here's my question to you. You were one of the people who was right about COVID and certainly more right than the U.S. public health authorities and the global public health authorities. And I'm just going to summarize in two sentences what I think your position was. So you're a physician in private practice in Texas and you're vaccinated, by the way.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No.

[Tucker Carlson]

You were not, oh, you're not vaccinated. I almost did. God bless you. But at first, you like have no real reason to think that this is all completely backward. But then you treat COVID patients, thousands, I think. And you start to realize that the therapies that the U.S. government is recommending are not working, that the vaccines are not working as advertised at all. And you start saying something about it and offering alternatives to it, which are badly needed in the middle of this moment. And you're attacked, really attacked, that your livelihood, your professional credentials are attacked.

[00:01:05]

And then time passes now four years, and it becomes really clear that once again, you were more right than the U.S. public health authorities. I think that's just demonstrable. I think the science proves that. So here's my question after a long preamble.

Dr. Bowden facing repercussions for her COVID-19 treatments

Have you been rewarded for it? Has the AMA given you the Physician of the Year Award? No, I'm serious. Has anybody said we were wrong in attacking you and you deserve credit for your foresight and bravery?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No. And I mean, I'm still fighting to keep my license. I mean, I still have the Texas Medical Board coming after me for something that happened right now.

[00:02:05]

You're fighting. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have a hearing coming up end of April, and I was trying to save somebody's life. It was a sheriff's deputy. This is a man that has served for 29 years trying to protect and save the public, father of six. And he contracted COVID. And this was in the fall of 2021. And that was the third and the largest surge of the pandemic. That's when, you know, this was following the rollout of the COVID shot. So this was eight months following the rollout of COVID shots, and they clearly weren't working. And this man, he got sick. He tried to get ivermectin. He couldn't find a doctor willing to prescribe it. He ended up in the hospital and he was, you know, went downhill like so many people did. And his wife, you know, the hospital was talking hospice. They were giving up. They said we tried everything.

[Tucker Carlson]

Discussion about a sheriff's deputy denied ivermectin

How old was this man?

[00:03:00]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

He was late 50s, early 60s.

[Tucker Carlson]

Not elderly.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No. And, you know, he was a big guy, but he had no comorbidities. He had no other medical problems. And so, you know, this is we saw this, though, with so many people, you know, day if you didn't get early treatment, the second week of illness, people would start really getting bad that this massive inflammatory response would kick in. It almost always happened on day eight. It was very weird. It was very predictable. And, you know, the primary care doctors just shut their doors to these people. They said, oh, this is just a virus. We'll let it run its course and then go to the emergency room if you can't breathe. So that that happened.

[Tucker Carlson]

Reasons why primary care physicians didn't treat COVID-19 patients aggressively

Can I ask you a question? Why would primary care physicians, whose duty it is to treat patients, and they must have known by this point that day eight is the critical day, why would they not treat these people?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Because there's a dogma that we are taught in medical school and in our training that you don't treat a virus, that you let a virus run its course, because there's this big fear about antibiotic resistance.

[00:04:09]

So they don't want people over prescribing antibiotics. And so the assumption is somebody comes to you with an upper respiratory tract infection and the first three, four days, five days, and they don't test positive for strep. You basically say, oh, you've got a virus and we'll just wait and see what happens. Well, I mean, that was just catastrophic. I mean, that was really and I learned so much. I mean, I had that mindset prior to the pandemic, but I just it just didn't sit well with me when people were coming in and really struggling to just do nothing. And so initially I tried hydroxychloroquine. But as soon as President Trump came out and said how great it was, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy, they literally shut it down like they prohibited doctors from prescribing hydroxychloroquine. So I put it on the back burner and I just did my best. I did breathing treatments, steroids.

[00:05:02]

I did antibiotics for secondary infection. But initially, I didn't really have a lot of demand for people coming in needing treatment. I was doing a lot of testing and that that sort of got me recognized in town because I had a saliva test that didn't require a swab up the nose. I was able to get the results back very quickly. You might remember initially LabCorp was the only lab in the country that had the test and they became inundated. It was taking two weeks to get the test results back. So we had a saliva test and people could just we could just give a cup and they could sit in their car and spit in it. And then we'd have the results back the next day. So that sort of that's where it all started. And then monoclonal antibodies came about and those those worked great. I mean, I could get as many doses I wanted. I'd get them the next day. I'd just contact the manufacturer, say I need 200 doses to be at my doorstep.

[00:06:03]

Great. They worked wonderfully. People turned around very quickly. And but what happened is and this is during that big surge when Jason Jones, a sheriff's deputy, got sick, couldn't get monoclonal antibodies, couldn't get ivermectin.

[Tucker Carlson]

Timeline of events surrounding COVID-19, including government campaigns and mandates

When in 2001 was that, do you remember?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

So the summer of 2021. Well, so let's start in the spring of 2021. So this is following the roll out of the COVID shots. The government is upset because people are not buying it. People are not getting there's very low uptake, very low interest or suspicion of these shots. So in March, they started their PR campaign, the government. They went after ivermectin. The FDA put something on their website about you can't use ivermectin for COVID. That Biden doled out 11.5 billion dollars to groups around the country.

[00:07:00]

Initially, it started with 275. It went up to 17,000 influencers, church groups, sports leagues, all sorts of people just just funneling out taxpayer money to go after doctors like myself that were spreading misinformation and to, you know, push people to get these COVID shots. So that happened in the spring. And that's how so Houston Methodist Hospital. And that's where I had privileges. They were the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots. And this was April 1st, 2021. And this was the exact day that Biden announced COVID-19 community core that that billion, multi-billion dollar propaganda effort. I think it was very purposeful. I think the mandate started in Houston for a reason. I knew I think that they knew if they could get away with the mandates in Texas, they could get away with them anywhere.

[Tucker Carlson]

Governor Abbott's role in the COVID-19 response in Texas

Where was your governor in this?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

He was, you know, he he was a Republican governor.

[00:08:01]

Yeah, he was he was a little slow to act. I mean, he he was on board with Methodist. In fact, I have the CEO of Methodist, Dr. Mark Boone, on camera saying that Governor Abbott wanted them to get a shot in every arm. That's that's according to the CEO of Methodist. But, you know, he did he did come through eventually. But this is early on. So then that summer started having all these breakthrough cases. And I was seeing it because I was testing people. So I started to track people that by their vaccination status. And I saw that the vaccinated outnumbered the unvaccinated. And they were just as sick, if not sicker. So I brought this to the attention of Houston Methodist, your patients, people that were coming to my office to get tested.

[Tucker Carlson]

Dr. Bowden's data on breakthrough cases and hospital response

And why wasn't every doctor doing this?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, we can get to that because, I mean, I'm independent. So it allowed me to do things that other doctors can't do.

[00:09:00]

But I was actually collaborating with Methodist. I was sharing my data with them because I had so many. I mean, basically, I was just all I saw was covid for a few years and we were trying to get the data published. So we had a good relationship. So I reached out. I said, hey, are you seeing what I'm seeing like these all these breakthrough cases? At the same time, I had all these people coming to me very distraught about the mandates. And, you know, because we were ahead of the time. Right. This was before the rest of the country was mandating the shots. But in Houston, if you were in a lot of people, Houston Methodist, they employ about 30,000 people. Very distraught over these mandates. And then I and then I see that they're not working. At that time, I wasn't seeing the injuries. And at that time, I was just very vocal against the mandates. So. I, you know, in August, late August of 2021, FDA put out the infamous horse tweet, and that's the attractive health care worker nuzzling the horse and says, seriously, y'all, you're not a horse.

[00:10:06]

You're not a cow. Stop it. Tweet went viral. That's right. That's when Joe Rogan got smeared for taking ivermectin. And then right after that, Biden mandated the shots and they took away monoclonal antibodies. So it's all very orchestrated.

[Tucker Carlson]

Discussion about the effectiveness and withdrawal of monoclonal antibodies

But monoclonal antibodies. I've never heard anybody say that they weren't helpful.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right. But if you have monoclonal antibodies available as an option, people are going to do that rather than get the shot. So that's why, in my opinion, that's why they took away the monoclonal antibodies.

[Tucker Carlson]

Which were working.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

They worked great.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, it was this is like the most evil thing that's ever happened in the United States.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah. In my opinion, definitely.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm sorry to keep interjecting. It's just even though I live this, it's just so stunning to hear it recounted as crisply as you are recounting it. So, OK, so they take away monoclonal antibodies.

[00:11:02]

Hospital's response to Dr. Bowden's data on breakthrough cases

They mandate the shot. You're sharing your data with the hospital at which you have privileges. What are they saying?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

So their response was one sentence and said, well, we think the shots are there to lessen the severity. Well, interestingly enough, they've never shared their data, their hospital data, and being the first in the country to mandate the shots, you know, they're sitting on an enormous amount of data. And if if the shots had been effective in preventing transmission or lowering the severity, then they should have shared that. They would have shared that. They would have been screaming that from the rooftops. It fits their agenda. But they've been very quiet about that. So, you know, I had, you know, all these things, all these patients coming to me very distraught. I had one patient come to me and tell me that her urologist at Houston Methodist called her and said, you're going to need to find a new urologist if you don't get the COVID shots.

[00:12:05]

And she had a history of bladder cancer. So she was very upset and she was calling me to try to find a new doctor.

[Tucker Carlson]

Urologist refusing to treat unvaccinated patients

The urologist said I won't treat you?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, he said that the department was talking, having discussions about not treating patients that were unvaccinated. He didn't say...

[Tucker Carlson]

The Texas Health Department?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No, this is at Houston Methodist.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, the Department of Urology.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes. That's what he told this patient. Then...

[Tucker Carlson]

Dr. Bowden's experience with hospital privileges and legal battles

Doesn't he have a moral obligation to treat his patients?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah. Well, we saw all sorts of moral issues during the pandemic.

[Tucker Carlson]

Crimes.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I mean, yeah, crimes. So, yeah, that happened. And then on the exact same day, I got a notice from a surgery center where I operate that I'd have to get the COVID shot to continue operating. And then on the same day, I got a notice from this hospital where I was trying to help the sheriff's deputy.

[00:13:04]

They had a court order to give me emergency temporary privileges so that I could give him ivermectin. The wife sued and she was, you know, last ditch effort, let a dying man try ivermectin before...

[Tucker Carlson]

The sheriff's deputy, father of six.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes. I testified. She asked me to testify. I testified. Senator Bob Hall testified. We won. And the court was ordered to give me emergency temporary privileges. And then I was to get either myself personally give the ivermectin to him or have a nurse do it because they thought it was too dangerous for one of their own members to do it.

[Tucker Carlson]

To treat a patient.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

With ivermectin, which is insane. Anyway, I got a notice that they were going to deny my privileges, even though I mean, I've never been sued for malpractice. Spotless record. They made me get letters of recommendation. They made me submit my surgical case logs.

[00:14:02]

They just fought tooth and nail to make the whole process as difficult as they could. And the lawyers ended up having to go back to the judge and fight with, you know, fight with them over just giving me privileges. Whereas, you know, at that time there was a shortage, you know, they needed doctors to work in the hospitals. And if I under other circumstances, if I had just shown up and said, hey, I want to help out in the ICU, they would have granted me privileges the same day. There wouldn't have been any kind of letters of recommendation or, you know, surgery.

[Tucker Carlson]

Discussion about the success rate of ivermectin treatment in court cases

Anyway, they said, can I ask, were you pretty confident this man was going to die without treatment?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No. So this is interesting. So that the lawyers that were doing this case, Ralph Larigo and Beth Parlato, they did 189 cases around the country. Similar situation. The spouse is suing the hospital to try to get their loved one ivermectin in this last ditch effort to save their lives.

[00:15:02]

Half of those people, they won the case. And in the cases where they won, all but three patients died. In the cases where they lost, all the patients died. I mean, it's really amazing. And apparently the judges, their political party matched the outcome of the trial. So the Republican judges were the ones that ruled in favor of the plaintiff. And then the Democrat judges were the ones that ruled against the plaintiff.

[Tucker Carlson]

The specific case of the sheriff's deputy and the hospital's actions

You're making my heart beat fast hearing this. So what happened in this specific case?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

So, you know, there was a lot of back and forth. It was very confusing. It was happening very quickly. And, you know, his life is on the line. And they basically, the lawyers told me, you have the green light. We're going to go ahead. We can go. It's all good. Everything's cleared. So I send the nurse to the hospital, and she's greeted by the police and the hospital administrator and turned away.

[00:16:05]

And he never is allowed to get the ivermectin. They appealed and were managing to get a stay on the order. And then on appeal, they lost. So the wife, luckily, she was able to go into the spouses, didn't get to do that. But that was one good thing. And this was at Texas Hugely Hospital in Fort Worth. So she applied ivermectin to him topically every day without the hospital knowing. The hospital tied up his feeding tube because they didn't want her sneaking anything in. They put towels and rubber bands around it so that nothing could be snuck in.

[Tucker Carlson]

These people are evil.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah. And I mean, they fought tooth and nail to keep him from just trying a very safe medication, which I believe should be over the counter. And then they turned me into the medical board over it.

[00:17:01]

And I'm still fighting those charges. The patient, he did survive, but he spent six months in the hospital. He lost half of his body weight. He never was able to make a full recovery. And then unfortunately, he did pass away.

[Tucker Carlson]

The charges against Dr. Bowden and public reaction to hospital policies

That's very upsetting to hear that. That's very upsetting. And so the charges against you, boy, I thought I was done being upset by COVID. You just brought me back. It's such a stain on this country.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It's a stain on the medical profession.

[Tucker Carlson]

Just that people didn't storm the hospitals. Your father, your husband, your children dying alone? Yeah. You should have showed up with guns and said, get out of my way. This is my loved one, and I'm going to be with him when he dies.

[Unknown]

Exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

And so I, you know, people should have done that. And I hope they will next time.

The specific charge against Dr. Bowden

Excuse me. So your crime is recommending a therapy for COVID.

[00:18:03]

That's your crime or is there something missing?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, the technicality is that I didn't have hospital privileges when I sent the nurse to the hospital. But because this was a legal decision, she never got in. She never got in. And I was following the guidance of the lawyers.

[Tucker Carlson]

So your nurse made to the threshold of a hospital. Therefore, you should lose your medical license. Is that?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, I don't think they're trying to. I think they just want to find me and find you.

Dr. Bowden's refusal to settle with the medical board

Yeah. Mark my record. And I could have settled a long time ago. So you have something called an informal settlement conference. It's behind closed doors. There's no witnesses or you don't really get to interact much. And they offered to make it go away if I paid them five thousand dollars and took eight hours of CME and retook the continuing medical education and then and then retook the jurisprudence exam. So all doctors in Texas have to take a medical legal exam.

[00:19:01]

So which I've already taken in past, but they wanted me to take it again. And I just said, no, I'm not. I'm not caving to this. And unfortunately, the latest. So it's been three and a half years. There have been multiple continuances. They haven't been able to find an expert witness to testify against me. The first one got sick with cancer. The second one just, I think, just chickened out. I don't know. And the third one, the third witness, it turns out that the entire time and he was the former medical director of the Texas Medical Board the entire time, the last 12 years, he's been working for Planned Parenthood. So we found that out.

[Tucker Carlson]

Discussion about the medical board expert witness working for Planned Parenthood

What?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wait, what? I'm so sorry. Now I'm tuning in with greater intensity. What is his job, his day job when he's not?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

He's lab director for Planned Parenthood.

[Tucker Carlson]

What is a lab director at Planned Parenthood?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I don't know.

[Tucker Carlson]

Fetal tissue to vaccine companies?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Probably.

[00:20:00]

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. And he's on the medical board?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

He was the medical director of the Medical Board.

[Tucker Carlson]

And he works at Planned Parenthood?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

This is not Vermont. This is Texas.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Exactly. No, I mean, Texas is not what people think.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, I've figured that out.

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Justification for hounding Dr. Bowden

So do you think, like, take yourself out of this? This is just like a med school classmate is going through what you're going through. Do you see any other side to the argument? Any potentially legitimate justification for hounding you for four years?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

You know, the medical board's job is to protect the public from dangerous doctors. I mean, it's true, though. I mean, you get a monthly bulletin, and there are, you know, sex— Like the ones who give your kids amphetamines for ADHD?

[00:22:05]

Discussion about dangerous doctors and the medical board's role

Well, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Or the ones who hook your wife on benzodiazepines because she has panic attacks? Those doctors? Right, right.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, no, I mean— No, not those doctors.

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, different doctors.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I mean, we get a monthly email just blasting all the crimes that doctors have done, and it's pretty bad. I mean, it's, you know, sex offenders.

[Unknown]

Oh, I'm not surprised even a little bit.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

A lot of, you know. So that's their role. I don't think I'm dangerous. I was trying to save a life. I stepped on the toes of a hospital. That was my crime. A multibillion-dollar hospital, Advent Hospital. And, you know, that's what happened with Methodist. I stepped on their toes, and they just weren't going to have that.

[Tucker Carlson]

So at any point during this, can you go to the— I mean, these are obviously huge corporations, but they're institutions whose goal is to save lives, improve lives, bring health to the population. Could you ever just, like, call the CEO of the hospital and the medical director of the hospital and say, this is really crazy.

[00:23:04]

Like, I'm not profiting from this. Ivermectin, there's no profit margin in it, right? I just think this therapy works. I've seen it, and I'm going to try and help, and why don't you back off?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah. Can you do that? I mean, at the time that this was going down, we were— it was a legal battle. I felt like, well, I really can't— I just have to— yeah, I can't step outside what the lawyers are telling me to do.

[Tucker Carlson]

Dr. Bowden's attempts to reason with hospital administration

How much money do these hospitals take from the Biden administration? Do you know?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I don't know for sure, but I know that Houston Methodist Hospital has 13billioninassets.Thatwasactuallyacoupleyearsago.It′sprobablymorenow.Inassets?Inassets.So13 billion in assets, and they have, you know, locations all over Houston. They don't pay property taxes. They're non-profit.

[Tucker Carlson]

They don't pay property taxes?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

They don't pay any property taxes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Discussion about non-profit hospitals and property taxes

Do you think we should get rid of non-profit status, period?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't understand.

[00:24:01]

I've met almost no non-profit that I think is good, and that needs to be reformed. We could probably close the deficit just by getting— —having these people pay the taxes that the rest of us pay.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Hospitals in Houston willing to be reasonable

Wow, that's just so shocking. Was there any hospital in Houston where you live, I think, that was willing to be reasonable or was not taking orders?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes, there was. Good. Yes, so there was a Dr. Joe Verone, who's a pulmonologist, critical care doctor. He's now the head of Independent Medical Alliance. He and I, I would have—it was crazy. We'd have patients calling us all over the country saying, help, get me out of this hospital. And he would accept transfers from all over the country. So people would be, you know, life-flighted from ICU in Maine and taken down to Houston, and he would care for them. And this hospital, UMMC, allowed him to use ivermectin.

[00:25:02]

And we were—so there was a whole protocol that was—it's called the Math Plus Protocol and started by FLCCC, which now is Independent Medical Alliance. But it was high-dose steroids. It was high-dose ivermectin. It was high-dose vitamin C. It was breathing treatments. It was all these very basic, you know, not dangerous things that weren't being done. He saved a lot of lives. He worked crazy. I think he worked over two and a half years straight without even a break. But I was fortunate to have him as an ally and somebody that— What a man.

[Tucker Carlson]

Discussion about the Math Plus Protocol and its effectiveness

Good for him. So you're clearly a data person. Do we have, like, the final outcome? Like, how did those patients do versus patients who were, like, intubated in some Biden-controlled hospital?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, if you look at—there's a great website that compiles all the ivermectin data just by itself. And we have 105 studies showing the efficacy of ivermectin.

[00:26:04]

And, you know, it varied depending on the actual patient, as it should. And you wouldn't always just use ivermectin. So, you know, in my more severe patients, I would use a combination of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin. During that second week, I would do higher-dose steroids if necessary. I would do breathing treatments. So it's hard to isolate, saying, okay, well, it's just ivermectin. But when you look on this compilation of studies, I mean, even in the late stages—and you were asking me about this earlier—even in the late stages, they showed that ivermectin could decrease mortality by 40%. It's most effective if you actually take it as prevention. So people taking it twice a week do the best. And then the people that start day one or two or three, they're the next best.

[Tucker Carlson]

So, I mean, that's established. We know that.

[00:27:00]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, it depends on who you ask. But yes, there's plenty of data supporting that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Reasons why ivermectin isn't the official CDC protocol

So why isn't that, like, the official CDC protocol for COVID?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, you know, it would help myself and other doctors. I mean, I'm not the only doctor going through this with the medical board. But if they could make it a countermeasure, then it's protected under the PREP Act. And then it makes all these issues that we're having with medical boards essentially go away.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is there anybody who has counter data, numbers showing the opposite, that people taking ivermectin, like, die more?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Counter data on ivermectin effectiveness

Well, I wouldn't say that. They'd say it doesn't work or it's not. But the studies that are all establishment, you know, in the big journals, they're either they didn't give the ivermectin soon enough or they gave too low of a dose or the study was sponsored by somebody that has financial interest in seeing it not work.

[00:28:00]

So there are studies countering that. But if you look at there's just an abundance of data showing it works and it's super safe. I was a little bit nervous before I started using it because of all the media, that's only for horses and that sort of thing. So I dug into it and I did what...

[Tucker Carlson]

Does it help horses? I know we kept hearing it was a horse dewormer.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Is it effective? Yes, for their parasite issues. So I looked at the study where Merck submitted to the FDA. It's on their website. Anybody can find it and you get toxicity data. And there's something called the LD50, which stands for lethal dose 50. It's a benchmark number that is used to gauge how toxic a medication is. So the higher the number, the lower the toxicity. And in COVID, we were using higher doses of ivermectin than what you use to treat a parasite. So I wanted to make sure these higher doses were OK. Well, if you look at the LD50 of ivermectin, it's anywhere from 11 to 82 times what we're giving for COVID.

[00:29:08]

So we are far under that threshold. And then I did a literature search and I tried to find accidental, intentional overdoses from ivermectin and I couldn't find anything. And I checked recently and there was one study showing some issues and it was a little bit muddy. Was this really ivermectin? But if you look at Tylenol, there's thousands of papers showing toxicity from Tylenol.

[Tucker Carlson]

Side effects of ivermectin compared to other drugs

I know someone who has advanced liver disease from it.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Really?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, well, that's a thing. As you know, thousands of people die every year. So Propofol used every day in hospitals. I mean, you screw that up by a tiny bit, you're dead. Correct?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right. Well, yeah, I haven't seen it, but sure.

[Tucker Carlson]

You killed Michael Jackson.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yep. Well, that was...

[Tucker Carlson]

Right, but I'm just saying like hospitals work with incredibly dangerous drugs every day. Right, right. I'm sure you do.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

What are the side effects of it?

[00:30:01]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I tell people I have a harder time with antibiotics in terms of side effects. If I'm going to get a call back in my office, it's usually about an antibiotic problem, not ivermectin. But you can get some GI issues, diarrhea, and then you can get blurry vision, but the blurry vision goes away when you stop taking it. And it's not like, oh, I can't read. It's more like, oh, something's a little off.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's it?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

That's it.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I guess what you're saying without saying it is that there's really no compelling medical reason to call the cops if your nurse shows up with ivermectin.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

So that's like purely political.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Politicization of medicine

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

How did your business get, your profession, get so politicized?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, it's awful.

[Tucker Carlson]

Did you know that before all of this?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No, and I remember, you know, Methodist came after me very vocally. And I had a press conference outside my office as a, you know, I'm not standing, I'm not putting up with this. And I said, you know, politics has no business in health care.

[00:31:02]

And at the time, I really believed it. I was not political at all prior to this.

[Unknown]

Really?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I shied away from politics. I really didn't like it. And I thought it was too divisive. And here I am.

[Tucker Carlson]

No, I think that's such a wonderful and very American, you have children.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's like a sweet kind of, that's how you should feel.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's how you should feel. I'm married to someone who feels that way. Not only people arguing, like, that's great. You know, we have important things to do. Like, yeah, no, I'm not making fun of you at all. I love that.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

But now I feel like there's no other choice, right? You just have to, you have to get involved.

[Tucker Carlson]

Dr. Bowden's political awareness before COVID-19

So you were not politically aware at all before this started. And were you aware that your business, that medicine was so politicized? Had you noticed it at all?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No, it's interesting that I went and looked at the data for Texas, because Texas has been infiltrated by people from all over the country.

[Unknown]

Oh, I'm aware.

[00:32:00]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

33% population.

[Unknown]

It's going to be California.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, it is. And you look at healthcare professionals, what they donated, like, to political parties. And 10 years ago, they primarily donated to Republicans. And now they primarily donate to Democrats. The whole profession has shifted.

[Tucker Carlson]

Shift in political donations of healthcare professionals

Good theory for why, but you're the doctor. So you tell me what you think the cause of that is.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, I think medicine in general, I mean, the corporate practice, it's become the corporate practice of medicine. It's become centralized. It's, you know, only 1% of doctors are not employed on one of those, but...

[Tucker Carlson]

Not employed.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Like, so 77% of doctors are employed by a hospital. 20% are employed by private equity or an insurance company, and 2% are employed by the government. And only 1% are like myself, where...

[Tucker Carlson]

So your choice is, like, your corporate douche overlords, private equity or insurance companies, if it's like a joke, or the government.

[00:33:10]

Right. Right. And you're in the 1% that has your own business.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yep.

[Tucker Carlson]

The corporate practice of medicine and doctors' loss of power

Maybe that's the answer right there.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, I think it is. I mean, we have to... Doctors need to regain their power. They've lost all their power, and...

[Tucker Carlson]

They have no power.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

They have no power.

[Tucker Carlson]

They're just like little worker bees getting ordered around.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I designed... So when I got out of residency, I worked in a traditional practice.

[Tucker Carlson]

Dr. Bowden's experience with insurance companies and her decision to go third-party free

And I started... Can you tell us doing what?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Just ear, nose, and throat and sleep medicine. And it was small, but it was easy. But I was always bothered by the stranglehold that the insurance companies had over my ability to treat my patients. So, like, one easy example is, I'm an ear, nose, and throat doctor. We do an endoscopic exam of the nose. It takes about an extra 10 minutes. Not really a big deal.

[00:34:00]

[Tucker Carlson]

Doesn't sound that fun, though, for the patient.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It's really not bad. You numb it up first with spray. There's no shots. But if I did that, and I marked the code on the sheet, on the receipt, the patient might get some gigantic bill, like $400 for doing this little simple procedure. Which, as an ENT, is pretty essential. It's part of our... Makes us different from the primary care doctor. We're able to look in there. So it always stressed me out in the back of my mind. Like, I'm going to do this. And is the patient going to get some big bill, right? I hated it. So when I, you know, I took time off because I had four boys and five years. And...

[Tucker Carlson]

Four boys?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yes. What was that like?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It was chaotic, yes. And I wasn't sure I was going to go back. I started off, I'm just going to take a year off. And that led to seven years off. I wasn't sure I was even going to go back to medicine. But as I got older, it just kept nagging at me.

[00:35:00]

So I decided to go back. But I said I was going to do it on my own terms. So I call myself third-party free. I don't contract with insurance companies. I don't contract with hospitals. And I don't contract with the government. And the only people I work for are my patients.

Dr. Bowden's direct primary care model

And it was...

[Tucker Carlson]

So they just, like, give you a credit card when they come in, that's it?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes. But they... And they can file a receipt. They can file a claim to their insurance company. And it's very transparent. Everybody knows how much everything costs. And it's actually... Yeah, there's so many people that have very high deductible insurance now. They're basically cash patients unless something catastrophic happens. And if you go to a traditional doctor's practice, half the time, they don't even know what to charge you for a cash patient because they're just so entrenched with the insurance industry. But there is a growing movement of doctors like myself. And I'm a specialist. So it's a little unusual. But there's something called direct primary care. And direct primary care is, like, affordable concierge care. So you're paying cash. But the cost is typical, like, a gym membership.

[00:36:03]

So it's not super high. You get a lot more access to your doctor. You got a lot more time. Probably more quality. They're not always like-minded in terms of COVID. And to me, that's a litmus test for your doctor. But it's a better way of doing it. You get much more access, higher quality care, more time. And you save your insurance for the catastrophic care that's what we do for our cars. And you use your HSA, so health savings account, if you can get one of those. And the government could expand those and make those more available for people. Because right now, it's sort of limited based on your employer. But if you can pay out of pocket for your basics, then you are likely to have a better experience.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think it's, but it also frees the doctor to think independently. Right. And to think on behalf of patients.

[00:37:01]

Dr. Bowden's reasons for not getting the COVID-19 shot

Why didn't you get the COVID shot?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I almost got it. I, in my mind, I thought, okay, this thing, I don't think it's gonna work. But I didn't think it was gonna hurt people. I just thought, I just don't think it's gonna work.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why? Why did you think that?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Because I trusted, I trusted. Yeah, I really had never given the FDA, CDC, HHS a thought. I really hadn't, they weren't on my radar. I just sort of assumed that everything was fine.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, but because you assumed that it's, it's interesting that you didn't think the shot would work.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right? Well, it's just because of the speed. I thought, well, how are they gonna get this together so quickly that it's gonna work? I also, I looked at the study, and I looked at how they conducted the study, and I didn't like how they did that. So the people, the test subjects were not routinely tested. They were just tested if the doctor felt like they needed to be tested, which seemed a little too muddy to me. So that, I had a hesitation on that regard too.

[00:38:01]

And then I showed up, but you know, I had this looming deadline, because I had privileges at Houston Methodist, and you had to sign an attestation. And the attestation said that you either got the shot or you intended to get the shot. So I just woke up on a Saturday morning. I'm like, I'll just do it. Let's just get it over with. I went to a grocery store and I stood in line. Where everybody should get their medical care, right?

[Unknown]

Go to the grocery store.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, right. Stood in line, and the line was long, and I got impatient. And I was like, I'm gonna leave. I'll come back another time. And I never came back.

Pressure to get the COVID-19 shot and Dr. Bowden's decision

Why? Why didn't I go back?

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I mean, that's just, it's a big deal. You've got privileges at this hospital. You know, you treat patients, but this is part of your business. You're getting paid. And you're a doctor, so you kind of have to get the shot. Like we're all on board. Everyone's doing this. And they really were mad at doctors who didn't take it because that's, and nurses, because that's such a statement.

[00:39:03]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, I mean, here's how I justified it in my mind. I never stepped foot in a hospital. I had privileges there just as an emergency situation. So it wasn't like, okay, let's say I got COVID because I didn't get the shot. And then I'm going around the hospital, infecting everybody. I wasn't in the hospital. I also knew that early treatment worked. So I knew that, you know, this shot was not necessary because I was seen at first.

[Tucker Carlson]

I know, but there's so much pressure on everybody, particularly on physicians at that point to do it. If you don't do it, it's a big hassle. You knew that it was going to be a hassle. And so just like, I don't know, the tide is moving really briskly in one direction and you decide to swim against it. That's more than just like a casual decision. That's a serious decision. And I'm just trying to get to the heart of why you made it. Because you're clearly a thoughtful person. You're a doctor. You don't just do random things one day. It's like, what was it? Was it instinct?

[00:40:00]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I think it was more, yeah, instinct. And everything was so busy during that time. I mean, I couldn't think straight. I mean, it was just slammed. And I just remember thinking, oh, I'm just going to go get this over with and just knock this off my list. And then when it didn't happen, I thought, well, this is a sign. You know, I'm not going back. So it may just be instinct.

[Tucker Carlson]

Or providence.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Providence.

[Tucker Carlson]

Okay.

Dr. Bowden's patients' outcomes with COVID-19 and early treatment

So, I mean, that decision changed your life, of course, because it puts you on the other side from everyone else. How did your patients do with COVID?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Everybody. So I used to give out my cell phone to everybody, especially, you know, the sick ones. Everybody that got early treatment survived. I even had some really, really sick people come in in the second and third week. So second, third week is when the inflammatory cascade set in and people get really sick.

[00:41:02]

I had a man come in with oxygen saturation in the 60s. And he was not a healthy guy. He'd had a history of a heart attack. He had a history of throat cancer. He was a veteran. And he basically said, I'm not going to the hospital. Because normally, if somebody walked in my office like that, I'd call the ambulance and say, hey. But I had to allow him to potentially die in my office, which was very scary. But, and I had a handful of people like this. He wasn't.

[Tucker Carlson]

He sounds like he's on the brink.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, no, he was bad. But, you know, I had nurses that could do IVs. So we gave him high dose steroids in the IV. We gave him antibiotics, breathing treatments, high dose IV vitamin C. We gave him high dose ivermectin. We brought him in every day as an outpatient. Because I didn't have a hospital bed in my office. And he survived. And I had a lot like that. So it was very gratifying. I learned a lot. I mean, I learned that just because somebody's oxygen saturation is low, they don't need to be immediately put on a ventilator, which is the dogma that we came into the pandemic with.

[00:42:07]

[Tucker Carlson]

But I think that dogma has changed, or at least, I'm not in medicine, of course. But for normal people, there is the sense that, like, stay away from ventilators.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Discussion about ventilator use in hospitals

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do you think that's a fair feeling?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah. I mean, I can see why doctors did it. Of course, I get it, yeah. Because, you know, if somebody's struggling to breathe, that's a really scary, distressful feeling for a patient.

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

When you can't get enough oxygen. It's horrible. So I can understand. But I guess what I don't understand is why they didn't do more to keep him off the ventilator. It's bizarre to me. I mean, they gave him steroids, but they gave him very small doses of steroids. I mean, why didn't they just throw the kitchen sink at these people? And they just got stuck in these protocols and just basically allowed people to die.

[Tucker Carlson]

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[00:44:01]

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People's reluctance to go to hospitals

So you said you didn't want to go to the hospital. I live in a, obviously, tiny world like we all do. But I don't know anybody who, in my world, who wants to go to the hospital. I know a lot of people who have resolved, I'm never going to the hospital. And they really, you know, I've seen it. Very sick people, I'm not going. What do you think of that attitude?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, I was, I realized I've been in the hospital seven times. And I know, well, childbirth.

[Tucker Carlson]

As a physician. Oh, well, as a patient.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

As a patient, yeah. And one of them, I was really sick. I mean, I had pneumonia and sepsis. And I'm very grateful to the people who helped me. And this is from the flu. And I had gotten a flu shot, by the way. But now, like you said, I mean, everybody is terrified to go to the hospital. I mean, the hospital used to be the place you go. Of course. Safe place. That's where you go.

[00:45:00]

And now people are terrified to go to the hospital. And so, you know, our current administration needs. If they don't do anything, that's a big problem. Because the trust is just been destroyed.

[Tucker Carlson]

Do you see that with your patients?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Oh, yeah. That's the most common question I get is where should I go if I need to go to the hospital? And I don't have a great answer for them. You know, your best bet is just keep yourself healthy. I mean, the biggest thing people can do is keep themselves healthy. Manage your diet. Manage your stress. Get enough sleep. Exercise. Get enough sun. And just stay out of the hospital. But keeping your weight under control is probably number one.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is it really? Why?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Because you gain weight. You're more susceptible to infection. You're more susceptible to heart disease. You're more susceptible to cancer. And those are the big three.

[Unknown]

And you have to buy new clothes, which is unacceptable. Yeah. You don't want to buy new clothes.

[00:46:00]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right. Well, but, you know, if you lose weight, you have to put... So I did carnivore for six months. And I had to buy a whole new wardrobe.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm speaking as a man. You can't buy new clothes.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

You can't? No.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why? Not allowed. That's against the rules.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Oh, oh.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can't buy new clothes. That's what keeps me in line. Just sorry. Um, really, it worked that well?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I weigh now what I weighed in high school. I never thought I'd get to that point. I did it for six months. And, you know, it's not for everybody. But I will say it's a lot safer than Ozempic and Mangiorno. And it's very simple. I mean, you basically eliminate all carbohydrates from your diet. You just eat meat and fat.

[Unknown]

Cheese.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah. And you snack on bacon. I mean, it's crazy. And you're, like, shedding pounds. It's boring, but it's simple. You don't count calories. You don't get hungry. I mean, you do go through the sugar withdrawal. Sugar's very addictive. You think?

[00:47:00]

So, but.

[Tucker Carlson]

What do you think of fasting?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, I tried the intermittent fasting. Did not work for me. I've heard that for women, it's not as effective. I worry that it slows down metabolism. But, you know, I've never tried it. And I know people swear by it.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you don't have a good answer on the hospital question, I noticed.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Oh, how to fix that?

[Tucker Carlson]

No, like, what do you do if you get sick? Like, your answer was don't get sick.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, if you have to go to the hospital, be prepared. Have somebody with you. Have your, there is a patient bill of rights. You have rights in the hospital. Make sure you know those rights.

[Tucker Carlson]

Doctors patronizing patients

I haven't noticed them.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, they don't advertise them.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why do doctors patronize patients?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Oh, yeah. So that's a bit, and it's.

[Tucker Carlson]

What is that? Treating them like children?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, when I started 20, 23 years ago, patients didn't have a lot of access to information, not like they have now. So we were in charge.

[00:48:01]

We were definitely in charge because we had the information and patients really, unless they had textbooks, they didn't have it because it wasn't, we didn't have online information. And now, I mean, patients are well informed. And so every conversation I have with a patient, I know that they have been researching and they have a lot of information at their disposal. And I think a lot of doctors don't like that. I embrace it because, I mean, I learn from my patients. And if a patient finds something, I will dig into it because I don't have time to dig into all of everything. Right. And you see weird things and I like it. But I think the doctors don't like that. It's a power thing. And I mean, it can be frustrating on the flip side, if you feel like you really know what's going on and you're challenged by something, somebody's around the Internet, that can be frustrating. But it's, you know, the doctors just don't, it's a power thing and an ego thing, mostly.

[00:49:03]

[Tucker Carlson]

That was my suspicion.

Dr. Bowden's opinion on the COVID-19 shot and its injuries

So what did you end up thinking of the shot, the COVID shot?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It's horrible. It needs to be pulled off the market. It should have been pulled off the market a long time ago. I looked at my patients in the two years following the rollout of the COVID shots and seven percent of my new patients were coming to see me for severe injuries. I've never seen anything like it with any other product on the market. If this were an antibiotic and you were seeing all these side effects, it would have been yanked off a long time ago. Normally, the FDA will put a black box warning on a medication if there have been five deaths. They will pull it off the market if there have been 50. Well, according to VAERS, which VAERS is Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, and it's vastly underreported, which I've seen firsthand.

[Tucker Carlson]

But it's been in place for 50 years or something. I mean, it's longitudinal.

[00:50:00]

So we can see the response to all these different medications, right?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

According to VAERS, there have been 38,000 deaths from these COVID shots. So under normal circumstances, the FDA would have pulled it. But instead, they've doubled down. They put the shots on the childhood vaccine schedule. All babies are expected to get three COVID shots by the time they're nine months old. The shots are still under EUA status for this age group. So under 12, they're not even fully approved by the FDA. And yet they're on the vaccine schedule. And according to the CDC, nine million American children have gotten the latest version of these COVID shots. Yes. Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

Still?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes. Yes. Nine million. Twelve percent. The concern I have with these kids. So we know, Myra Karnak.

[Tucker Carlson]

Wait, this is going on right now?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think we voted against this. Correct?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I don't know.

[00:51:01]

[Tucker Carlson]

You're very diplomatic. But I'm just stunned to learn that that's happening right now.

COVID-19 shots for babies and children

Could this be shut down?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It should have been shut down a long time ago. And, you know, what's the...

[Tucker Carlson]

Nine million babies have had COVID shots?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah. Well, children, minors.

[Tucker Carlson]

Is it compulsory?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It's still compulsory in some states. Yes. In some businesses, not in Texas. So Texas actually passed a law outlawing mandates for COVID shots. But I actually reached out to people on Twitter yesterday. And they said, all these people said, yeah, it's still requiring the shots for jobs or a nursing program or even transplants.

[Tucker Carlson]

So we're going to let you die unless you get the shot. How could we fix that?

[00:52:03]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, the shots need to be pulled off the market immediately.

[Tucker Carlson]

Who could do that?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Who could do that? The FDA. So Marty Makary, he could do that. And then we need accountability. I mean, we need... We can't sweep this under the rug because we will never restore that trust. And that's the key thing is if nothing happens, it's just a festering wound. And the trust will never come back.

[Tucker Carlson]

Are there any indications that this is coming soon?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I mean, I'm not privy to conversations in the government.

[Tucker Carlson]

I think you probably follow this as closely as anybody. There's so much going on. So I'm going to just plead ignorance on that basis. There's like a lot.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Multiple wars and the economy. And, you know, there's just a lot to distract you from this question. But I think it's a really important question. But you are focused on it. Have you seen any sign at all that these products, which according to the self-reporting system VAERS, have killed 38,000 people that they're going to be pulled off the market?

[00:53:06]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

HHS's shift in focus to food quality

I have not. I mean, it seems to me that HHS, their focus now has shifted or I don't know. Their focus is on food and food quality and improving that. And I haven't heard a word about COVID or the COVID shots.

[Tucker Carlson]

Really?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Not. I mean, maybe I've missed something, but that's... I mean, I'm just reading what you're reading. I mean, I don't...

[Tucker Carlson]

Food is like smoking. And I love bad food and I love smoking. I don't smoke anymore, but I loved it. And I'll just say that. And remember, hate me for it, but it's just true. That's why people do it, because they love it. And I love pizza. I don't think I ever smoked a cigarette. I don't think I've ever eaten a slice of pizza without knowing it was bad for me.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

So like, it is common sense. I mean, I do think like we shouldn't allow food stamps or SNAP to be used for Coca-Cola.

[00:54:02]

Obviously, there are changes you can make for sure. But like, you know, when you're eating garbage, that's why we call it garbage. I'm 55. They called it that in 1975. They'd be like, oh, you're junk food. You know what junk food is. It's the delicious stuff. So like, I'm not... I mean, I think it's important. I do think eating right is important. And I try not to eat any freaking vegetables, though, but whatever. But like, the COVID stuff seems, the shot seems like an imminent threat.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Dr. Bowden's concerns about myocarditis in babies

Yes, and my concern, giving it to babies, because myocarditis...

[Tucker Carlson]

You're positive that's actually happening. Babies are getting this.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. You can find it on the CDC.

[Tucker Carlson]

I trust you. It's freaking me out. I didn't know that.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, that's why we can't let this just go away. Babies. So myocarditis. We know there's an increased risk of myocarditis in teenage boys who take these shots.

[00:55:04]

We don't know what that risk is for nonverbal babies, because the symptom is chest pain. So a baby, the baby could be getting myocarditis, and we have no idea. Myocarditis can leave a scar on the heart. And then years later, the heart is permanently...

[Tucker Carlson]

Right, you're playing lacrosse and you drop.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right, and that's my big concern. These babies could be getting myocarditis, and we have no idea.

[Tucker Carlson]

Permanent immune system damage from COVID-19 shots

Do you believe that those shots are responsible for permanent immune system damage?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I think, well, what I have been looking at is spike protein antibody levels. So when you get a vaccine, you can... Traditionally, we call them titers. So like people who get hepatitis B vaccine, you can look at the titers, antibody levels, and see if you have protection. We do that in the hospital a lot.

[00:56:01]

So they want to make sure if you work in the hospital, if you get stuck by a needle, you're not going to get hepatitis B. So I've started looking at these spike protein antibody levels, and it's alarming because the people... I can tell immediately if somebody had the shot. In the vaccinated, these antibody levels are... I did an average last night, 13,000. In the unvaccinated, the average is 1,000. So there's huge discrepancy.

[Tucker Carlson]

And this is years after the shots?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, years after. And most of these people have gotten two, maybe three. Nobody's gotten more than that. And none of these people have been sick recently with COVID. So it's very alarming to me. It suggests... I mean, we don't know, but it suggests that spike protein is still active and still replicating possibly in the body. I mean, the mRNA in these shots is not mRNA. It's a synthetic mRNA, and it was made to avoid degradation.

[00:57:00]

So it's made to stay in the body. That was the purpose of it, of modifying it. So when I see these levels like this, it really concerns me that we have an issue with this ongoing spike protein in the body.

[Tucker Carlson]

Consequences of ongoing spike protein in the body

What are the consequences of that, do you think?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, I think cancer is a big concern. I think immune dysfunction.

[Tucker Carlson]

How would that affect cancer?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, the spike protein is oncogenic. Your Xunxin talked about that. So viruses can be oncogenic. It appears that the spike protein, the mRNA shots have SV40 in it, which is an oncogenic virus. There's something called frame shifting. So when the mRNA is integrating, that it can produce new proteins just by little mistakes that happen. So these new proteins, we don't know what they are, but they can cause autoimmune disease and possibly cancer as well.

[00:58:08]

There's just a lot of unknowns. I mean, we need a test to detect spike protein. All we have now is antibody tests. And we really need a lot more. We need an antidote. I am struggling because I have all these injured people. And I usually start with ivermectin. And ivermectin helps. It binds to spike protein and it's anti-inflammatory. But we're really limited and we need a solution. So we need the NIH to really dig into this and help these injured patients because they're very challenging. And we're sort of just experimenting because we don't know.

[Tucker Carlson]

And they're not helping?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I would say, I mean, I get, yeah, I've tried a lot of things. And the thing that works the best is ivermectin. But it's slow going. It's, you know, I usually put people on for a long period of time before saying, okay, this is not going to work.

[00:59:05]

And it's just hard because we, you know, there's just not, we need the NIH to step up and help us.

[Tucker Carlson]

Alp story

Time for their true life Alp story. I got a call from a friend of mine yesterday. Honestly, true story. Who said his girlfriend had just broken up with him over Alp. He wouldn't stop. And I thought to myself, that's kind of sad. And he said, no, it's not sad. Imagine if I'd married her. Now I know. I was saved. Then the next day, this same friend is driving at twice the speed limit for a major American city, pulled over by a cop in a speed trap. Cop takes his license registration, goes back to the patrol car, runs him, comes back, looks in the window and sees a tin of Alp on the dashboard. Pauses, stunned, says to my friend, use Alp. Yeah, I do, says my friend. So do I, says the cop. We all do. He looks at my friend thoughtfully and goes, drive safely, sir. And hands back his license registration. No ticket. So in two days, he's saved from a tragic marriage to a girl who doesn't like Alp and a speeding ticket.

[01:00:04]

All true. It's more than enough. In an age of 350 million people are guessing there are about 350 million Alp stories. Email us yours. We want to know and read it on the air. Email tellall at Alppouch.com. Tellall at Alppouch.com. Give us your Alp story.

Censorship on YouTube regarding COVID-19 shots

So one of the primary platforms we use for distribution is YouTube, which in general has been great, actually, if I'm being honest. A lot less censorship than I got in any television job I ever had. So we're really grateful to YouTube. I never thought I'd say that. But the one area where we get censored by YouTube is when we talk about the COVID shot. And which I think is really interesting. So this will probably be censored on YouTube, but I just want to ask you, but you're a physician, clinical physician.

[01:01:00]

You're treating people, thousands of people. And so I feel like I have to ask you this.

Injuries Dr. Bowden is seeing in her patients

Tell us about the injuries you are seeing.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

So I don't get the sudden collapse, myocarditis, stroke sort of situation because I'm outpatient. Soccer players. Right. I see the, yeah, it varies, but I've seen some very strange rashes that don't go away with steroids and antihistamines and have actually.

[Tucker Carlson]

What kind of, like rashes?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Like bumpy, red, splotchy. I mean, I had this poor kid, 15 years old. It was all over his face, all over his body. And he responded so well to ivermectin. That was a great case.

[Tucker Carlson]

So are you sure that was vax related?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, it came on, right. I mean, he had no prior history, came on, he's 15. It came on right after the COVID shots. I see POTS. So POTS is when the blood pressure drops suddenly or goes up real high suddenly for no clear trigger and your pulse may be erratic as well.

[01:02:11]

That's been a big thing with the COVID patients. That's very difficult to fix. I've seen a lot of neurological.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can I ask about POTS? What does POTS stand for?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Postural orthostatic hyper, or temporal hyper, postural orthostatic syncope.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't understand a single word of that. I probably shouldn't have asked you, but like, what are its effects?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

So you feel faint. So you may just be standing there and your blood pressure drops or your pulse goes up way high and you feel like you're having a panic attack, that sort of thing. So it's symptomatic changes in your blood pressure that occur without any kind of trigger.

[Tucker Carlson]

What? I mean, that sounds like it could be dangerous.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, yeah. And it's very hard to treat. So I see a lot of that. I've seen neurological tremors.

[01:03:01]

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, come on.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Oh, yeah, yeah, no, no.

[Tucker Carlson]

Tremors?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I saw a patient a little bit older than me, CEO of a company. He came in and he gave me his business card and he said, hi, I'm this so-and-so. And he gave me his other card and he go, and this is the biggest mistake I've ever made in my life. He gave me his vaccine card. Very difficult to, I mean, we've gotten a little bit of improvement, but just, you know, in a lot of fatigue.

[Tucker Carlson]

Hand tremors?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Whole body, his whole body.

[Tucker Carlson]

No way.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

Even when he sleeps? That's got to affect every part of your life.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

A lot of these patients say they feel a lot of burning, like pins and needles when they sleep, which is typical with neuropathy.

[Tucker Carlson]

That sounds like a life destroyer.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No, yeah, it's bad. And they don't just, it's not like giving them an antibiotic and a week later they're better. These are chronic conditions.

[01:04:00]

And the government's not helping. So, you know, Breanne Dressen of REACT-19, I don't know if she, so REACT-19 is an organization started to help the injured from, you know, with the COVID shots. The head of that organization was involved in the AstraZeneca trial. So she was a, she volunteered to be a guinea pig and she got injured. Government just came out and said, they're not going to help her. They're not going to give her any kind of financial reimbursement.

[Unknown]

When?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Maybe a week or two ago.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't understand. Like, we didn't vote for this at all.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

I mean, the government was, in her case, she was part of the clinical trials, you said.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

But everybody else, not including me and you, took it because we were, you know, subject of like the biggest propaganda campaign in American history. So we were forced by the government to take it.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right.

[01:05:00]

[Tucker Carlson]

Liability protection for vaccine companies

By the way, why aren't the companies paying these people?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Companies have no liability risk with these products. And the PREP Act even further protects them. So it's very hard.

[Tucker Carlson]

When was the PREP Act passed?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It is not, it does not expire until 2029.

[Tucker Carlson]

And so under the PREP Act, they're even more shielded?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Anything that happened, anything that's designated as a countermeasure is protected. So anything that happens in the hospitals, anything that happens from these shots, it's all protected from liability. There is one really monumental lawsuit going on that could change that. Brooke Jackson is a whistleblower for Pfizer, and she was involved in the research. So she was at the clinical trial sites. She was the manager, and she was seeing all sorts of issues with the way they were conducting the trial.

[01:06:00]

And she brought that to the company's attention. She brought that to the FDA's attention, and she was fired. So she has been in this gigantic legal battle against Pfizer for a long time now. I think we're going on four years. And unfortunately, and this was during Biden, the DOJ stepped in and basically said, no, you can't sue Pfizer. It's crazy. You can't sue Pfizer?

[Tucker Carlson]

Oh, of course you can't sue Pfizer.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

The DOJ stuck up for Pfizer, which is not usually how that works.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm surprised they didn't arrest her for complaining.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Exactly.

[Tucker Carlson]

Neurological symptoms from the COVID-19 shot

This has got to be making you pretty radical.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It doesn't seem very radical to me. It seems like common sense.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah. You don't seem like a radical person, but this makes me feel radical. So neurological symptoms, and you're pretty convinced those are also from the shot.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, you look at, okay, what was their past history? Do they have any issues?

[01:07:00]

Were they otherwise healthy? And then when did these things start happening and the timeline? And then the other thing is they typically go to other doctors and they get the million dollar workup and they can't find anything to explain it. And the doctors are baffled. They put them on psychiatric medications.

[Tucker Carlson]

Not really.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Oh, yeah. I saw one patient on a sleeping pill, a benzodiazepine and an antidepressant.

[Tucker Carlson]

SSRI?

Mass shooters and psychiatric medications

Why do we have so many mass shooters in this country? I don't know. It's baffling. That's shocking. So they used to, I mean, in just American culture, they used to make fun of 19th century medical cures for hysteria. It was always like the Victorian medical cures. And one would have a problem. They'd be like, here's a giant vibrator or, you know what I mean? Like, literally, they made that like, it's all in your head, honey. Calm down. And that was like a trope.

[01:08:03]

And I was hardly a feminist, but I was kind of sympathetic to that. Like, don't just dismiss people. You know what I mean? Tell them they're hysterical. But that's what you're describing.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes. They don't get reported to VAERS. I've had to report every single patient that came to see me for an injury. Even though they'd seen multiple other doctors, it was me that had to report it to VAERS. So I know it's underreported.

[Tucker Carlson]

VAERS reports and their relevance

VAERS is one of those things. I love the idea of VAERS. And I remember reading the VAERS report in 2021 when I worked in television and just going on one night and reading it. Like, here's what's been reported from this compound that people are being forced to take. And man, I got so attacked by, you know, the Atlantic Magazine and everybody. It's like, no, this is a federal reporting system. And that was kind of the last I ever heard of VAERS.

[01:09:00]

Like, no one ever mentions it. Like, what's the point of having it if it's, like, irrelevant?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, it's not subtle. If you look on there, you don't have to have a degree in statistics to understand what's going on. I mean, it's like nothing's happening. And then whoosh, you know, just it's not subtle.

[Tucker Carlson]

It was in place during the rollout of a bunch of other vaccines. Right. Like, going a long way back. So it's like, you know, measles, rubella. Right.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

I don't have any degree. And I could understand that. So do you ever hear federal officials make reference to VAERS?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Not to my knowledge. I mean, I could have missed that. But no.

[Tucker Carlson]

So the idea with VAERS seems to be that people are complaining again. They need to shut up.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Apparently. It's one more thing being swept under the rug.

[Tucker Carlson]

OK, so you've told a much sadder story than I expected to hear.

[01:10:00]

Long-term consequences of the COVID-19 shot

Are you concerned that because the technology in these shots was, you know, brand new, never deployed before at scale anyway? Is that correct?

[Unknown]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

And the, you know, the trials for these drugs were like, I think we can say it's fair to say a joke.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right.

[Tucker Carlson]

Uh, that there are consequences that like haven't manifest yet.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, it's it's hard to get up to date cancer numbers, but I'm hearing all sorts.

[Tucker Carlson]

Why is it hard to get up to date cancer numbers?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

That's a good question.

[Tucker Carlson]

We're in the middle of a cancer moonshot, doctor. Right.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

There's probably people that have access to that data, but publicly it's hard. And, you know, so I have to rely. I don't see a ton of cancer in my practice, but I do have friends at MD Anderson, and they said they've never seen anything like it. The young people coming in with very advanced tumors. I think that's what we have to be worried about now.

[01:11:00]

[Tucker Carlson]

Difficulty in accessing medical data

Can I ask you've made reference like five times to to numbers and the difficulty in getting numbers. I don't understand why. I mean, I understand why the identity of patients is shielded by federal law. That seems reasonable to me for privacy reasons. But, you know, just the fact that someone has this or that disease with no identifying markers connected like that seems like it should be public information. How is that not? Why is there so much secrecy around medical data?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, the data itself. It could be there could be an agenda behind it. It could just be a total inefficiency of the bureaucracy. It's hard to say. But yeah, it'd be nice if we could have more data.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, isn't that essential to science?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, it is. But, you know, it's it's also I guess it's complicated in some degrees to get it all out there. But yeah, transparency would be even aside from the cancer numbers.

[01:12:06]

I mean, like I said, with COVID, there are all these hospitals that had so much data at their disposal and didn't share it. It'd be nice to see, you know, Houston Methodist come out and share their data with us since they were the first. They led the way with the mandates. Be nice to see how successful that effort was for their employees and for their patients.

[Tucker Carlson]

Can a lawsuit force that?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I actually sued them to get that data. Man, you are ferocious.

[Tucker Carlson]

I lost.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I lost.

[Tucker Carlson]

On what grounds?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I don't know. It was just political grounds, I think. I sued to get their financial data because as a nonprofit, they are supposed to give it to you if somebody from the public wants to know.

[Tucker Carlson]

But this is what they get in exchange for not paying property taxes.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right, right, right, right. But there was some technicality. I don't understand really why we lost, but we did.

[01:13:01]

We even appealed and we lost on appeal.

[Tucker Carlson]

Lack of reckoning for COVID-19 and the future of medicine

Do you think that COVID, clearly there's been no reckoning. You've not been recognized for your bravery and prescience. You called it and you should be rewarded for that. You haven't been, likely never will be. So there's so much about it. The shots are still being given to babies. That's my takeaway from this conversation. There's no effort to pull this stuff from the market. 38,000 deaths later. There's no recourse the average person has. You can't afford to hire lawyers and you can't sue the companies that make these products and you can't sue the government officials that force you to take these products. Everything about it is just pure Orwell. So that's the downside and it's crushing actually to hear all of this from you. Didn't expect to hear this. What are the upsides? People are more aware.

[01:14:00]

Do you see medicine in the United States getting better? Now that people are paying attention to know what's up?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I think I think people are feeling more empowered, which is how they should be. I mean, they're not listening to the government for their health care decisions anymore. I think people learned from that mistake and I haven't lost all hope. I'm grateful. There was a time where I couldn't even I was banned from Twitter. I don't know if you were. But, you know, we are free speech is coming back.

[Tucker Carlson]

I wouldn't. I mean, they I'm not like they couldn't ban me from Twitter. So they didn't.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

But but they could ban much more informed. Plus, how am I a threat? I'm just some like random talk show host with an opinion. The people they want to ban are the people who are telling the informed truth. The physicians who are treating thousands of covid patients. Like you're the threat, not me. We're like, I'm a doctor.

[01:15:01]

I'm a reasonable person. I'm not political. Here's what I'm learning. They have to ban you.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right. Right. Well, and, you know, we're making I'm grateful to you for having me on here because this is old news to most people. Right. And, you know, we just need to keep speaking out. We just need to keep I mean, my foot is on the pedal, you know, even though there is no pandemic anymore. But we must just keep pounding away at this.

[Tucker Carlson]

What sounds like indications suggest I mean, I don't want to overstate anything, but it feels like they're the consequences are still rippling. And I don't know why there's not an organized effort to find out, you know, our cancer rates spiking. We eliminated cigarette smoking, which was supposedly the main driver of cancer. I was there for all that. They beat me into quitting, which is fine. You know, smoking is bad. I got it. But like cancer went up. So, like, at some point, I say, stop. You told me this. The opposite happened.

[01:16:00]

Let's talk about why. Right. Not attacking you, but like I demand an answer. And I don't know why. How hard is that to get some statistician at NIH or wherever HHS to tell me what's happening with cancer rates and pediatric cancer rates, especially because that's like crazy town.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I think, you know, the money is there for the treatment, not for the cause. Right. So it is, you know, there's lots of money. It's just going towards that doesn't make any sense.

[Tucker Carlson]

Like, how how can you recommend treatment without knowing its effect? How can you you can't make any wise decision without all the facts, as we say. Right.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right. But this is not I mean, this is financially driven. So if you're in it to make money, you're going to go after the treatment, not the cause.

[Tucker Carlson]

Very cynical about medical care.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I've seen a lot.

[Tucker Carlson]

Would you have gone into this if you had known?

[01:17:00]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, I mean.

[Tucker Carlson]

I'm sorry not to get you to reevaluate your life.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

It's been very difficult, but it's been impactful. And, you know, in some ways, I'm glad it happened. It's it's been very educational. And, you know, I have hope that it will change. It may it may take another generation. COVID should be the wake up call. And the seeds were there before COVID. But COVID brought it all out there. And hopefully, you know, we could actually learn from it and change course.

[Tucker Carlson]

Dr. Bowden's experience with the flu shot and her view on other vaccines

You said you got a flu shot and then you went up in the hospital with pneumonia and sepsis. I'm sorry not to laugh at your illness. But so but you got a flu shot. I've never had a flu shot because I'm lazy. But you clearly believe, you know, you would have got it. You're a doctor. You wouldn't have gotten unless you thought it was efficacious because you got one.

[01:18:01]

Has what you've seen over the past five years changed your view of other vaccine courses?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, I mean, I what I've realized is I made a lot of assumptions about vaccines. It was, you know, the gospel according to vaccines. When I was in training, there was no questioning it. It was just accepted fact they were safe and effective. And COVID made me realize, well, hold on, maybe let's see how they were tested. And they have not been tested like other products on the market. So they don't have placebo controlled trials.

[Unknown]

Any of them?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

No, not like the other products on the market. And they don't have liability protection. So they're the companies are not motivated.

[Tucker Carlson]

They don't have liability exposure.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, sorry. Yes. So the companies are not motivated. There's no repercussion if something goes wrong. And there's no reason for to spend a lot of money to ensure that it's safe. So now, you know, I have questions about all of them. Now, I will say I'm not seeing the carnage from the flu shot that I that I've seen with the COVID shot.

[01:19:05]

I think there's a different degree of danger there. But it doesn't make me question at all. And if you look at the flu shot, in fact, has never been shown to decrease hospitalization or death in people that get the flu shot. And it actually makes you more susceptible to other viruses. And you can treat it.

[Tucker Carlson]

So I had a child who was badly injured by the flu vaccine.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Oh, wow.

[Tucker Carlson]

And for me, that was one of the drivers in not I mean, I had when it happened was almost 20 years ago, I had no idea that facts. I never thought the vaccines could hurt anybody. Never even in my mind. I thought they were like one of the great miracles of science. I was so proud that we developed the polio vaccine, which I'm not against. But I didn't know that they had potential downsides. And that's one of the reasons I was like a little slow to wanna.

[01:20:01]

Changing the system around vaccines

But anyway, what would you do? So it sounds like you're not like against vaccines. But from what you just said, the system around vaccines does not put patient safety at the forefront of concern. Right. So how would you change that?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Well, remove their liability protection, require them go through the liability protection. Do I know? No, I don't actually. I don't either.

[Tucker Carlson]

You know, we need that.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, yeah. It'd be nice.

[Tucker Carlson]

So you just can't say I'm such a good person. What I do is so important to the Commonwealth that you literally can't sue me.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Exactly. That would be great.

[Tucker Carlson]

Sorry, excuse me.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah. So, I mean, just make them go through the process. Any other product has to go through. It's not very complicated.

[Tucker Carlson]

So that that's the first thing you do. Why isn't that happening?

[01:21:04]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Apparently, when when it was in 1986 and Reagan put the act in place, I guess there were two companies that almost got just decimated financially because of all the the kickback, the lawsuits should have been a warning sign.

[Tucker Carlson]

Yeah, I mean, I obviously hate lawyers. I've never sued anybody. I don't think I ever will. I really hate lawyers quite as much as doctors, but in that range. OK, so. I'm against lawsuits, too. I get it. I totally get it. Some of the tort awards are insane and all of that stuff. But I also think it's fair if someone keeps getting sued for the same thing. Like if I get a sexual harassment suit for political reasons. I get eight of them, right?

[Unknown]

Like maybe I'm groping people, right?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Right. Yeah.

[Tucker Carlson]

That's fair.

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yeah, that's fair.

[Tucker Carlson]

As an empiricist, you agree with that?

[01:22:00]

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

Yes, I am on board with that.

[Tucker Carlson]

Dr. Bowden's future plans

So last question, what are you going to do now that this is all over? Like how are you other than treating patients? How are you as a formally politically disengaged person spending your time?

[Dr. Mary Bowden]

I try to get away from it all as much as I can. And that's what I would advise anybody is just find something, a hobby that gets you away from things and get outside as much as you can. And I'm probably going to slow down my practice a little bit just to give myself some breathing room. And I still have four boys in high school. But I will continue to speak out. And I may do a podcast. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do. But the fight's not over.

[Tucker Carlson]

Thank you, doctor. I really appreciate it. That was great.